Who of you uses one of the above services, what do you think of it?
Fastmail is great but it’s a totally different market /use case, you wouldn’t go with them if you’re privacy oriented. They’re better than Google in that sense but you’d go with Proton if you’re looking for privacy features.
Also keep in mind Fastmail is based in Australia and their government tends to be anti-privacy with the laws that get passed there.
AU laws are worse than US laws, in fact, the US gets AU to do things for them that would otherwise be illegal if performed by US agents
Proton Mail is great. Can’t compare to fastmail because I’ve never used it. But I enjoy being a paying customer instead of an advertising target and I use every product in their suite. Happy to answer more specific questions
Yeah even the free email is perfect IMO. Got the VPN packade (and more IIRC), very very cheap, fast, and no bullshit.
I’ve used Fastmail with a custom domain for a few years now… (5+?) and have been really happy with it. I wish it was a bit cheaper (or had a better family plan), but it works well with my terminal email client (mutt).
The web client is pretty quick and I use the calendar there all the time. Fastmail supports all the normal standards such as CalDAV, so you can use it with third party applications.
I looked at both, and went with fastmail because at the time it had a shared calendar you could use, which I do with my family to track events and do scheduling. Fastmail is standard commercial privacy though. Good enough for me, but no where near Proton Mail from what I understand.
I’ve used both. I switched from Fastmail to Proton then back to Fastmail. If you’re just starting on your privacy journey I’d still recommend Proton.
When I switched to Proton they only did email and that’s what I wanted. Instead of focusing on email Proton expanded into other areas like VPNs, Proton Drive, and password managers. I already had good privacy focused solutions for all of those problems, so for me personally I didn’t like where they were spending their development time.
As a Linux desktop user and an iOS mobile user I was often one of the last to have new features available for Protons applications which got to be really annoying.
To use desktop email I had to install Proton bridge which required a GUI to run. It was always having issues. Super frustrating.
I really disliked that Proton didn’t give me a way to use SMTP without going through their bridge. I have three home servers configured with Fastmail app passwords limited to only SMTP to send me notifications for updates and other alerts. This would have been really flaky to make work with Proton.
With Fastmail everything uses open standards, IMAP, SMTP, CalDav, CardDav, and WebDav. It all integrates really well with my laptop and phone without any special tools. I end up using those services much more now. The downside to these open standards is you don’t get end to end encryption that Proton offers.
I also feel as if Fastmail is giving me more for my money. I remember having pain points with Proton and wildcard emails with custom domains and trying to use their hidden email service. All of that is much easier with Fastmail. I also had a few sites not allow Protons masked emails but Fastmail worked fine.
I’d say, if privacy is your main thing and you don’t already have some of the services offered by Proton go with them. If what you’re looking for is as much privacy as email will let you have without using non standard software, and you just really want reliable solid email, Fastmail is the right choice.
With Fastmail everything uses open standards, IMAP, SMTP, CalDav, CardDav, and WebDav. It all integrates really well with my laptop and phone without any special tools. I end up using those services much more now. The downside to these open standards is you don’t get end to end encryption that Proton offers.
Yes, this openness of Fastmail makes them a really good provider unlike Proton that is always pushing for more proprietary garbage and uses “encryption” and an excuse for everything.
I’m a proton unlimited subscriber and it’s great. I love the email aliasing from simplelogin, protonvpn, drive storage, calendar, etc. well worth it imo. I love the company.
I really like Proton.
I’m happy with fastmail. I haven’t used Protonmail and have had some doubts about them overclaiming about end to end encryption and stuff like that, but they sound good too. The concept of privacy in email is problematic since a) if the person you are emailing uses gmail, then Google has a copy of your email’s plain text no matter how much encryption your own provider uses. b) Even if the email content is encrypted, having the metadata intercepted can be just as invasive, c) even if encrypted, having an archived and authenticated copy of a message can be a big problem due to e.g. rubber hose cryptanalysis, d) for secure communication to exist at all, both people have to be quite security conscious, which isn’t easy. Technical features like cryptography are of very little help with that.
There’s a good movie “Citizenfour” about Edward Snowden, and I remember reading that when the producers needed to have a private conversation while working on the film, they would go outside and talk, leaving their phones in the office. A real privacy approach has to go well beyond using the right email provider.
I like that Fastmail has humans answering support tickets. That’s already light years beyond anything like gmail. I don’t know how Proton is about that. Maybe they can do it for paid plans. I don’t see how they can do it sustainably for free plans but who knows. The main drawback of fastmail is that it is on the expensive side, but I use it so much that it doesn’t sting as much.
If you just want cheap non-megacorp email for your own domains, I like mxroute.com. Their sticker prices can be kind of high, but they frequently have sales with super cheap plans.
Note that ProtonMail and Fastmail have quite different feature sets.
ProtonMail does not store your Email in plain text for instance; they cannot read them or be ordered to read them. This comes with some drawbacks such as that standard protocols such as IMAP do not work without a bridge because they necessitates that the server can read all the emails.
Though the bridge works really well
I’ve never used Fastmail, so I cannot comment on that but I just closed my Proton account because of their donation to Bellingcat. It might not be a problem for some but it was for me.
https://propagandainfocus.com/proton-mail-imperialist-stooge/
But it looks like Proton does not choose the beneficiaries. From their statement:
‘Recipients are nominated by the Proton community and selected based on community feedback. Proton doesn’t nominate the recipients. Recipients cannot be changed after the raffle begins and the fact that some find Bellingcat controversial was not known beforehand.
While in theory it is nice that an organisation would give over so much power to its customers in terms of where donations go, it does come with the risk of problematic decisions being made. Then later, when they’ve boxed themselves into a corner, quite unnecessarily, all they can do is go along with what their customers decide and then pass on the morality of that decision to those customers. But that’s not really good enough to say “My customers made me do it!” No, you gave your customers too much power in the first place. It’s a privacy organisation so surely better to give some money to a group that supports and compliments your aims. Bellingcat (regardless of the problems raised in the article I posted) has nothing to with privacy. If people read the article and decide they are happy with Proton, then go for it. I’d rather people make a decision with their eyes open.
While I kinda like what Bellingcat does, you do have a point. Crowdsourcing decisions rarely lead to good outcomes
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I have had a Tuta (Tutanota) account for years and they’ve always been good (I just have a free account and it’s always been fine for my needs) https://tuta.com/
I tried both. Proton email client on Android at least was awful. Super sluggish to navigate. In fact I have a chunk of credit with them because I cancelled too late to get a refund. No idea what I’m going to do with that. I already have a VPN and a Pwd manager…
Fastmail has been snappy and I like that the app has a notes section for quick jotting of ideas. I also like that Rclone can attach directly to Fastmail files. They just recently added Proton Drive support too though.
Give the new Android app a shot. Its been flawless so far.
It does seem snappier. But damn, I’ve come to love Fastmail’s all-in-one app. Having calendar, notes, contacts and files all in the email app is something I didn’t realize I’d care about but not sure I can do without now.
Yeah, I kind of miss the convenience of that, but all I need those for is email, everything else I self-host, so I’m used to the opposite, lol. In any case, both are great options, and e2ee for Proton only really works with other Proton users, so its not like you’re missing much by using fastmail instead. As long as we stay away from the mainstream providers, were golden.
That and not being shown ads in my damn inbox is what lead me to the hunt for a better provider than Gmail. Another I just remembered about Proton that I didn’t care for (and there may be a way to opt out) is the amount of promotional notifications/emails I’d get for their other services. Not as bad as NordVPN, but then again I don’t think anyone is as bad as them regarding self-promotion. I’m happy to pay for a service if it means retaining some more privacy but mostly get rid of ads but the constant need to upsell was getting to me.
FYI, that was one of the things I disliked the most about Proton (email client slow). They released the newly rewritten app few weeks ago finally, and it’s working great.
I did hear about that. But haven’t tried it yet. I’ll check it out, thanks!
Proton Mail with a custom domain. The only reason why is that I had it before I knew Fastmail existed and it would be a pain in the ass to move my entire family to it. However, I was VERY tempted when 1Password put Fastmail temporary email support into their product.
Fortunately, Proton Mail just released their own temporary email product based on SimpleLogin.
I was using Protonmail, and their other services, and was a paying customer for over a year. But I stopped because of their poor Linux support, and not being able to receive email notifications on my de-googled phone. I made a shift to mailbox.org and am liking it. Yes, I have to manage my own PGP keys, but the experience is much better, in my opinion. Their storage even supports WebDAV. I can encrypt the whole inbox and the files stored in their drive with my own key.
Be careful with mailbox.org and their “your contract period ends soon” email. It actually means “pay us or your data will be irrevocably deleted under 60 days”. The mail sounds inconspicuous enough, is rather verbose, and even contains the phrasing “you may silently ignore this email”. And you will not be getting a single warning before your data is entirely, irremediably deleted.
And even if you only wait 30 days, not 60, your account gets deleted (but not your emails), so you lose any and all ways of contacting their support (rescuing your emails after that gets much trickier). Speaking of which, make sure you use a widespread browser on a computer to use their support platform: otherwise you will get a visual confirmation that a ticket was created, but none will ever be.
TL;DR: mailbox.org good, but (A) make absolutely sure you always have up to date local backups, and (B) beware of the unexpected caveats and the clumsy, confusing wording.
I use Proton, business tier. My only gripe is that addresses can’t be deleted without contacting support, or so I’ve read. I can’t find a delete button on any of my addresses, but can find the button to buy more address slots.
Using custom domains and a catch-all pointing to certain labels is my workaround.
I also find it weird that you can’t create unlimited addresses on your custom domains.
For the shared domains, limits in this regard are absolutely understandable as the supply is limited but addresses should have next to no cost for PM when they’re under my own domain.
Why is that? @protonmail@mastodon.social
This and the fact that I can’t use my mail clients on android (I understand the bridge and the incompatibility with encryption, it makes sense, I just don’t like it), stops me from being a paid customer
I imagine a bad actor could buy a custom domain, connect it to proton, and then spam millions of people from thousands of addresses, using Proton’s infrastructure?
What is the # limit on a custom domain?
I imagine a bad actor could buy a custom domain, connect it to proton, and then spam millions of people from thousands of addresses, using Proton’s infrastructure?
You could do that without creating thousands of addresses; one is plenty for that. Also, they’d still be under your domain, so all you’d do is hurt the custom domain’s reputation and probably get it blocked by everyone quite quickly. If anything, I’d imagine thousands of addresses under one domain spamming would get that domain banned much more quickly than if it was just one address.
What is the # limit on a custom domain?
There is no specific limit for addresses on custom domains; it’s one global limit of 15 addresses, no matter which domain they’re under.
You aren’t missing anything. You can’t delete them yourself, but, you can pause them. For now, for me, the pause works just as well because if/when any of my email addys starts getting ridiculous spam I’ll just pause it. I run a business off one of my accounts and I don’t want any of the emails I’ve handed out to not reach me so I am fine nit being able to delete (for now). I’ve just been extra careful to choose addresses that I don’t feel a need to delete.
I use both, bit Proton is more fearute rich. Never mind the fact that this is the first company I’ve seen that lowers it’s prices because they are making good money. That alone is worth a shot.
