So I was going through /all and this admin is snooping at vote counts for posts in his instance and then posting it publicly.
Just a reminder that these kind of petty people exist. Pick a trustworthy instance or better yet, host your own.
Archive: https://archive.md/oybyL
The votes are public. Kbin displays them right in the UI. Lemmy semi-hides it, but it’s never been designed to be private in any way.
Changing instance won’t do shit if that’s a concern to you. As an admin I can see them even if my instance isn’t involved with the post at all:
So really, I just need to host my own instance to see votes. Nice.
didn’t know that. thanks!
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In my mind the UI should make this very obvious (honestly I think there should be a pop-up that warns new users of this every time they vote until they check a box to disable it), because it’s not what people expect. But votes are very public.
Which de-incentivizes voting, choking off the thing needed to aggregate the content. Kind of underlining the problem with the votes being public.
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Not nessasarily, the protocol could be written so that an instance simply tells other federared instances “X of my users upvoted this, and Y downvoted this”.
The tradeoff being that instance then have less tools to work with to moderate voting. Instead of being able to do global vote ring detection, the most they can do is look for abuse on their own server, and trust that every instance they vote-federate with does the same. Even then, with every instance trying to be vigilant, no one instance would have the info to detect a cross-instance abuse.
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We do see the votes. Publicly posting them sounds like poor form, but then what do you expect from crypto bros?
Pick a trustworthy instance or better yet, host your own.
Running your own instance isn’t going to hide your votes.
I’m curious, If I delete my account periodically, are the profile and activity like comments/votes still out there in other instances? are votes deducted? I’m not sure if this is the right question but does deleting accounts federate?
I’m not one to half-ass it, so someone more knowledgeable than me will have to field these.
I am not sure about the details of intended behaviour but it certainly won’t federate to anyone deliberately disabling that part of federation so for privacy purposes you might as well assume that it doesn’t federate.
Guys. The person running the website you use always can do and see everything
This has nothing to do with lemmy
I think it’s clearly available on several other activity pub platforms, last time I checked one could see individuals voting when subscribing to Lemmy communities from Friendica.
It’s still against the spirit of Lemmy to post it publicly on here…
It is against the nature of information to want to broadcast it and also keep it secret at the same time.
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I think the idea is to make it easier to detect trolling/spam from certain accounts. But honestly, there’s no reason upvotes and downvotes can’t just be public.
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Mods too next release :/
Oh good, Lemmy had no privacy. Not like that ability isn’t going to be abused.
Either make it public right from the start everyone sees everything. Or make this crap not possible.
You’re going to get echo chambers that start witch hunts. Someone is going to dox someone because they don’t like how someone votes… Yadda yadda someone gets swatted or someone just shows up… Then someone’s going to start cheering “We did it Lemmy!”…
Honestly at least with Reddit you had one single evil entity that would abuse their power and trust of users.
I think the main complain anyone would have with this is, only we admin can look at the vote, and no one else can. This isn’t a problem in Kbin or any other platform that allow one to do so.
I only check the vote to see if there’s any brigading, other than that, i have no issue with other admins snooping or whatever. Ohh to be clear, all of us admin can see the vote everywhere, getting a new instance yourself will not solve anything.
A new PR allowing mods to see the votes was merged a few weeks ago.
Why not allow anyone to see the votes? Anyone already can by using kbin or spinning up their own instance.
I think there is an assumption that is rooted in how reddit worked, that votes are anonymous. People operating under that assumption might not like having that blanket ripped off. It would be different if it was up front from the start.
Yeah, but for that you have to open a ticket suggesting that.
What’s the instance?
Or is it right in front of my face and I’m not seeing it?
It’s an archive of monero.town
archive
So wait the instance doesn’t exist anymore?
It does, maybe the post or comment got deleted.
Actually, no. The post is still up and the comment too. So maybe it’s just in case it gets deleted.
I see.
NARRATOR: The user did, in fact, not see. They were, actually, still very confused. One should not feel bad, however, as the user does, in fact, very much have “the dumb” and, therefore, gets confused easily.
From what I understand votes are publicly available data, Lemmy just chooses to hide them to prevent the “chilling effect” where people feel afraid to vote honesty for fear of repercussions. Then they reintroduced it for admins so they can do their duties in stopping vote manipulation, for example people who go onto your profile and downvote literally every comment you make (it’s already happened to me like 3 times) or those who use all of their alts to try and sway momentum on a comment their main makes. There’s also times where there’s no justification for a comment being upvoted; perfect example is when a nazi says “based” in response to an article about someone being racist and it gets like 20 upvotes. I don’t think anyone reasonable would be against a banwave on something like that.
Obviously admins can see everything that goes through their servers for what should be obvious reasons, so this is more of a convenience thing. Moral of the story: don’t join shitty crypto instances.
perfect example is when a nazi says “based” in response to an article about someone being racist and it gets like 20 upvotes. I don’t think anyone reasonable would be against a banwave on something like that.
I would absolutely be against that. Voting should not be bannable outside of vote manipulation itself. If the content is offending, remove that (and possibly ban the user), but not people who vote on it. That’s just stupid “guilty by association” nonsense. And besides, voicing stupid opinions (in moderation) is still better than suppressing free speech.
Lemmy just chooses to hide them to prevent the “chilling effect” where people feel afraid to vote honesty for fear of repercussions.
I find that kinda stupid as well. It leads people to think that their votes are private when literally anyone can view them with a bit of work. Sure the chilling effect sucks but it’s better than misleading people. At the very least they should be warned when they sign up.
… really? You think that upvoting what amounts to “hey any fellow nazis here?” should be allowed…? 😒
I think that if you allow that question in the first place, voting on it should not have any consequences either.
Besides, despite what most people instinctively think it’s better to see what you disagree with so that you can keep your eyes on it rather than forcing it into hiding and knowing nothing (again, in moderation - you probably don’t want to run an actual Nazi instance, so if it does bother you you should moderate that post/comment).
And mistakes still happen; it’s easy to accidentally upvote/downvote something by mistake, to misunderstand someone, etc. So yes, I do think banning people based on what they up/downvote is a bad idea.
Your argument is “we should keep nazis around just make sure they behave” which is not a point i’m willing to entertain.
Man, please, learn to read. My whole point is that you should not care about what people upvote.
So once again: if you are okay with the original comment/post - which means you are fine with keeping Nazis on and what they have to say on your platform - then you should be okay with people who “react” on that content.
Or maybe you aren’t fine with it, so you should delete the offending post or comment, and then you won’t be bothered by the reactions either.
Because you can’t also ban the person who posted it. For god sake this is the level of faith we are on. Go outside, this thread ended yesterday.
You would think adversarial actors would find this problematic in their own way. Does no one remember anymore way back when reddit was exposed as being an American state apparatus? Reddit owners its earlier more naive era used to share site metrics. They inadvertently revealed that large amounts of activity comes from a US military base. Then they wiped evidence and disavowed all knowledge that any of that ever happened. And now the narrative on there is that other state actors are the ones in control of that platform. How convenient.
White hat actors could be using such open access to data to reveal whats in the data. That’s what the big social platforms are so scared of themselves. Not only is it their financial bread and butter. Contained within is who know how many skeletons piled up over the years.
Everyones privacy these days is basically long gone. There’s illusion that internet platforms are in any way shape or form fair or balanced because of the paper thin concept of internet votes == democracy or something. Yet a lot of people stubbornly persist. It’s past due time to shine a light on the adversarial actors run amok. Show us the anomalies in data that reveal how the typical real human user is powerless against adversarial actors.
I’d like to think it would be the last straw for the whole concept of social platforms at least the way that it is now. Who knows though. It’s also shown us how dumb people are. They could very well just “meh” and go back to mindlessly infinite scrolling.
Ok. These votes are not about picking presidents, so…
I wish more admins would make votes public on their instances, so the whole community could work together to identity bad actors
I notice that monero.town has a large image of Pepe the nazi frog in it’s sidebar: https://monero.town/pictrs/image/afb3860f-022e-4723-be3f-74041da2abc9.webp?format=webp
What’s the connection between Monero and the alt-right?
It’s not just a 4chan thing, it’s used innocuously in gaming all the time.
What’s the connection between Monero and the alt-right?
Cryptocurrency would be a good first guess.
