One of these cultures has normalised vegan and vegetarianism for centuries, the other is trying to wean a meat-obsessed population.
They are not the same thing, nor do they have the same requirements to reach their end goals
One of these cultures has normalised vegan and vegetarianism for centuries, the other is trying to wean a meat-obsessed population
As someone who works in a grocery store, the worst fucking people are the ones who go up to the deli counter and yell at the clerks, demanding the "bloodiest* roast beef they’ve got. That or the spiciest turkey, or whatever.
Dudes who’s entire sense of self is invested in eating meat. Easily the most annoying kind of guy I encounter in my daily life.
That and the ‘for every animal you don’t eat i’m gonna eat THREE!’ Yay well done so macho you get threatened by what another person eats fucking yay for you sir gold star.
Dudes who’s entire sense of self is invested in eating meat
This might sound silly. But maybe they enjoy the taste of rare roast beef? Before this “make meat seem like it’s not dead animal” trend, the rule used to be anything over medium was overcooked for most meats. For some odd reason (actually, not odd. freaking additives) a lot of roast beef is sold medium-well. Which is tasteless enough to make someone go vegan!
I don’t understand “yell at the clerks”. I’ve never seen that. But I agree it’s rude. Just **not **because they are buying meat.
Hence this meme
which would be fine if it were just a straight comparison but it starts bleating about chemicals and preservatives and it’s a bit too purity politicking for my tastes.
Maybe. While I do sometime choose the plant-based meat, thinking of it as a substitute was my initial reluctance to try vegetarian food. Back then, I ridiculed the idea of a “veggie burger”, but really liked grilling a “black bean patty”. Did you realize Mac and Cheese can be vegetarian? “Greek veggie dip” is horrible, but I love hummus. I always loved various potatoes, but it was quite a revelation that you could spice them up and use them as a meal. My latest infatuation is Halloumi or Paneer - don’t ever call a nice grilling cheese a substitute for anything.
At least for me, it is easier to choose foods for their own value, rather than suffer with a substitute, r a variation “without”. I’m not a vegetarian and have no interest in it, but I will choose what looks good to me at any given time, on its own merits
I mean, the United States has, to be fair, developed a food culture that emphasizes using a lot of meat, especially over the past century or so. It’s not surprising that people from an area that eats so much meat, who go vegan, are going to want to look for ways to still make dishes familiar to them
Yep. It’s all about helping people transition. So much of American food culture is centered around burgers, steak, BBQ, etc. It’s really hard to just drop all of that on a dime, even if you want to. These products help people with that mental itch.
Not just the meat, there is cheese and milk involved in a lot of it as well.
It’s not just culture, or itch, or whatever.
I just love the taste of meat! My body craves for it. But if I can keep that delicious flavour in my plate without killing an animal, that’s great!
If its any indication into other factors, every time I try to make butter chicken it ends up tasting like a British persons home made curry recipe so there’s that. Jokes aside as someone who likes cooking, a lot of traditional recipes, of any culture are simply much more labor intensive than slapping a bean patty on a pan then furnishing it. I’d wager the pace of a lot of western lifestyles, the choice gets weighted quickly.
To be fair, a patty sandwich of any type (be it hamburgers, chicken sandwich, beans, or any kind of imitation meat) is going to be similarly labor intensive and time consuming if one had to make the patty and bread oneself rather than being able to just buy them. I’m sure traditional recipes for most cultures can be made similarly convenient if probably somewhat different from their original form, if demand exists for them to be premade and sold that way. There’s a specialty grocery store very close to my home that specializes in Indian food, tho also has some international foods from other places too, and it’s freezer section has all sorts of Indian dishes done up as tv dinners, or premade frozen samosas of various flavors one just has to fry in a pan for a few minutes, among other things.
Yup. I love a good microwaved samosa or Chana masala and it’s easier than grilling a frozen chemical burger frankly. I don’t think convenience is a fair argument here. Microwaved Chana is nowhere as good as a freshly made 3hour dish, don’t get me wrong, but there are convenience options that aren’t vegan chicken nuggets.
I mean comparing a frozen vegetable patty to a whole frozen meal is a bit of a stretch in quality and affordability imo. Honestly a lot of it has to do with things like how many pans and utensils you use too. Even if I make a burger from ground beef its still only one pan, two cutting boards (one for meat one for veg) and all the fresh produce just needs to be washed and cut, if you wanna grill the onions, same pan no problem, all you need is a knife and a spatula. When I tried to make butter chicken the tastiest recipe called for two different marinades and a sauce you make in stages. I can go over the video and look at the kitchen hardware necessary but I think it’s easy to imagine its a lot more. I’ve found quite a few Indian recipes in particular are similar that way so it seemed topical.
What does a British person’s home made curry taste like? I’m curious.
Depends on if they’re capitol E English or not, then I’d imagine you’d probably have South Asian and Jamaican styles being dominant. I was referring to the englishmans home cooked take on it. If you want the story, years ago I was in Australia and my neighbors there were UK English, I don’t know how to describe it other than it tasted like my early attempts at traditional recipes. If it helps I remember “Man I did all that and mine still just tastes like someone used a strange ramen flavoring packet.” So that’s probably how I’d describe it.
Bet it’s for breakfast;-)
I was taught to cook a ton of things growing up.
most of those meals involved meat. So took a bit of relearning. Being able to just make an old thing but with fake meat was nice. Then sometimes brain craves something from child hood, so have to find an alternative.
I get that it’s a meme, but what’s the problem? I’m vegetarian/flirt with veganism; it’s purely for moral/ethical/environmental reasons.
Indian food is delicious. An Impossible burger on a pretzel bun dripping with grilled onions, avocado, vegan aioli and mustard with a side of steak fries? That’s also delicious, in my opinion.
Meat is delicious, and that’s not at all incompatible with my reasoning for being vegetarian.
You started a certified veganism struggle session, good job.
Yeah, it seems that “your meme is kinda gatekeepy” is a pretty good way to start some “spirited discussions.”
For real. I was raised on slop, now that I’m a vegetarian, it doesn’t mean I don’t like the foods I grew up eating.
I guess the point is that we don’t need to rely on expensive substitutes made by the same corps that own slaughterhouses to make tasty, nutritious vegan food
I’d argue that the fake meat stuff has hurt veganism to at least some extent because it’s marketed so heavily and people think it’s the only way to eat vegan. You can see how prominent the ”all vegan food is processed” and ”it’s too expensive to be vegan” arguments have become, even in this thread.
Aioli is naturally vegan. Classically, it’s just garlic paste and oil. Flavoring mayo with garlic is not supposed to be called aioli.
Try making the proper kind. You’ll be impressed.
The problem is that you’re still fixated on the form and experience of meat. A full mindset change is more robust.
It’s like how fake leather can help replace and reduce real leather usage, but if the trend of desiring leather died out in the first place, the whole problem is dropped altogether
I don’t want to stop eating meat, I want to stop the exploitation and suffering of animals.
While I want to stop the exploitation of animals more than I want to eat meat, if there is a path that allows me to do both, I will have a preference for that path.
The same goes for leather. It’s use isn’t worth what has to be done to create it, but it is a fantastic material with a lot of versatility that’s better than near all alternatives in plenty of applications. Fake leather and synthetic leather are wonderful innovations because we can enjoy the benefits without the negatives, and that’s something to be encouraged rather than avoided.
I get it but this is an emotional appeal. I’m just trying to explain the logic of what was being said here
I like the fake meat stuff too, and often try to make it myself even though I’ve never had meat on purpose in my life and actually throw up if I do accidentally. I just like the kitchen chemistry aspect of it I guess
I’m not saying we should stop making vegan alternatives to meat. I’m saying people should stop desiring meat or meat alternatives. Because logically that desire of meat is the cause of both meat and meat alternatives. Like how the cure to nicotine addiction isn’t nicotine patches alone
not entirely, as leather is still a wildly useful fabric and material for many uses which synthetic leather can serve(to a greater or lesser extent, granted), but only in specific cases can meat not be replaced/not replaced effectively
You think leather is a desire?
You think people kill animals to obtain leather because it’s cool?
Leather has many purposes and advantages, it’s economically and practically sane to use it or mimick its features, even with fake leather.
A desire, he said… Sometimes I don’t get people anymore.
Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes. But I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether. If you keep relying on meat substitutes, you haven’t let go of meat entirely, I found it easy to get back to meat eating.
Who cares for bravery? Avoiding meat is avoiding meat. Crazy strawman.
Being called stupid and criticizing my decisions kept me from “being brave”
Like “You’re not good enough until you are this much” bullshit. If that’s the attitude, then fuck no. Why do I wanna go even further into things if y’all are assholes right off the bat. Like, no. fuck you. If it’s this complicated then I am going to do what has been a life of hassle free eating. My guilt is very easily wiped away like that.
I’m vegan and I eat plenty of fake meat. I’m vegan because I think it’s right, not because I dislike meat. Don’t listen to OP. You are good enough, and any reduction in the consumption of animal products is better than no reduction.
I went through a long period of transition before cutting out animal produce entirely, but have now been vegan for a good few years.
I went through a long period of transition before cutting out animal produce entirely, but have now been vegan for a good few years.
This is the way. It’s like a relationship: if you have to force it, it’s gonna be shit.
I cut down on meat significantly in the past 3 years. I eat mostly vegetarian, fish once a week and meat every once in a while. Overall, my meat consumption decreased by about 90% which I call good enough and I don’t really have the intention to change that.
I’ve been talking a bunch of shit out of annoyance. And there’s a bunch of posts echoing exactly what I was complaining about.
Even getting called a liar.
This is the only reasonable or polite response I’ve seen. Missed one maybe?
So thanks. I really shouldn’t be painting the entire lifestyle with the same brush, because well here we are.
So I’ll shut up, and say thanks. And for the record, my kid still makes me get the impossible patties. She’s not veg anything, so ita just cause they’re good and that on its own should be good enough. Not all is lost in my removed.
Yeah same here. I like fake meat. I mean, if it tastes good and has no animal parts in it, it goes into my mouth. It’s not that complicated.
Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes. But I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether.
Looking at someone not eating meat: you should stop eating meat.
I don’t think meat substitutes is is the major problem to worry about. In fact, perhaps they could help?
https://plantbasednews.org/opinion/do-84-vegans-and-vegetarians-give-up-diets/
Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes
That’s good.
I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether
That’s bad.
Now, firstly, thank you for defining a lot of people cowards.
Secondly, while I like indian food, I like meat more. And I liked it since forever. If I can have the delicious taste of meat in my plate without killing an animal, that’s great. Fantastic! I’m eagerly waiting for lab crafted meat any day. I’m willing to pay it more than real meat, because I’m not fond of killing living beings to eat them. But if that’s not yet possible, I’d still have my steak and my hamburger.
18 years meatless and counting
You don’t make friends with
saladthat attitude.it would be easy to get back to meat eating
If it would “be easy” for you to get back to consuming animal products, it’s hard to imagine you’re vegan at all.
A lot of Indian cooking is vegetarian, not vegan. Ghee is very often used.
And paneer.
Yea there are probably more vegans in Europe than in India
Not quite the same, but if you want to replace ghee with something vegan, try avocado or coconut oil. There is vegan ghee (made from palm oil I think?) but it’s bad for you the same way old timey margerine is bad.
Incidentally, unprocessed red palm oil could be a nice replacement, but it has a characteristic earthy/almondy taste. I love it on fish dishes but it’s not the taste you expect from Indian food I think.
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I’m vegetarian. Western food is so focused on meat that people often have no idea how to make a meal that doesn’t contain it. My mother once asked me how to make a vegetarian version of Chicken Parmesan. So keep the tomato sauce, cheese, and spices, but swap out the chicken with pasta. Congrats you’ve made vegetarian Chicken Parmesan. I like to call it Spaghetti.
I’d swap the chicken for eggplant personally.
I think that speaks to OP’s point: instead of thinking in terms of trying to replicate the meat dish without meat, think in terms of making a vegetable dish that satisfies the same mood.
It’s just funny that someone was looking for a meatless chicken parm because the original recipe was eggplant parm, just someone thought it would be better with meat.
What was first, the eggplant or the chickenplant?.. 😛
90% of “vegetarian versions” of dishes are just the dish without meat. 9% of the remainder are the dish with black beans and/or mushrooms
I mean personally I’d sub it in for something with some protein, though you definitely don’t need nearly the amount you get from a piece of meat.
And there’s a lot of alternatives for many different prices. I remember how people used to berate me for being vegetarian while growing up, telling me I’d die and whatnot.
Still here, after nearly thirty years.
You need it.
Maybe you do.
and people get so pissy about like ‘where is muh serving of protein??’ like just because you saw an infograph as a child doesn’t mean you have to have a hunk of a living creature every meal
You should still be eating protein…
You know what has protein? Every whole plant food. You don’t need a dedicated part of a meal that is high in protein when the whole meal contains protein.
That’s delusional.
Different plants have different macros. Ofc there are plants with high protein but don’t go around spouting carrots and fruit are a balanced diet. You need beans, legumes, nuts, etc.
There’s nothing childish about paying attention to macros. If you’ve ever spent time doing any programmed exercising that includes making linear progress, you know the difference protein can make. And it’s hard to achieve even when you’re not extremely limited in ingredients.
I’m not knocking vegan or vegetarian diets. Just saying it’s not at all easy, and that protein matters a lot.
Also most vegetarian Indian food is absolutely loaded with butter/ghee. It’s not “healthy.”
Italy and Japan life expectancy: 84 years.
India: 70 years.
Drastic differences.
I think the poverty and lack of access to healthcare in some areas might be a bigger drag on life expectancy than cooking with butter, especially when a fair number of Italian dishes also include butter.
Turkey (lots and lots of meat): 78 years.
Life expectancy is not a good scale.
Can I still have 11 bread?
like just because you saw an infograph as a child doesn’t mean you have to have a hunk of a living creature every meal
Especially when said infographic was not only wrong, but also propaganda.
Yeah I don’t get the whole “replace meat with a vegan steak” idea. Just prepare a delicious Dahl, the recipe of which has been around for hundreds of years!
There’s actually a lot of plant based meat that are chemical / preservative free, Redefine Meat comes first to mind. As there is a lot of animal meat that is full of chemicals, preservatives, carcinogens, and antibiotics use.
I would only assume most fast food meals, meat ones included, are not chemical / preservative free. That’s a western fast food problem, vegan or not.
Lastly, vegan people broadly don’t eat plant based meats. Like it get the joke… It’s just broadly inaccurate. Meat eaters, people trying to eat less meat, and some vegetarians buy plant based meats.
Very true, great points all around
Now with that out of the way, this is literally just a lame “I’ve depicted the group I don’t agree with as the Soyjak and my group as the Chad, thus superiority confirmed”.
It was never going to be a balanced take
Lastly, vegan people broadly don’t eat plant based meats
I think it’s a demographics thing. There’s a whole lot of vegans who eat “fake meat” regularly or even exclusively. I have a successful restaurant chain near me that specialized in “plant-based alternative” meals, from burgers to lasagnas and everything in between. No it’s not all meat. Lots of “Cashew Cheese” and similar.
And honestly, I don’t think vegans should be faulted for “wanting meat but not eating it”. It’s the ones that get judgey of non-vegans like the other 99% are somehow inferior to them. I know way too many vegans who are vegan for good reasons or for personal-trauma reasons, and they should be left alone. Even if they want a miracle burger and mac 'n cashes.
Of course there is. Not saying no vegans eat it ever. It could be a regional variable, but I’m speaking about population as a whole, not your local vegan restaurant. Google says 86% of plant based meat is bought by meat eaters. I also work in the field so have some knowledge on the subject. 86% is about right but could be 5-8% high. But in any case, the people who buy it are broadly meat eater, or more likely “flexitarians” .
And vegans should eat more plant based meats. The better brands are very healthy and it could help them stick to their vegan diets.
Google says 86% of plant based meat is bought by meat eaters
The reference behind that Google statement (assuming the same) is a vegan blog talking about the Beyond brand only, and it’s citing a wordpress site as its source, and the wordpress site has been deleted.
NPD has a study mis-cited by vegnews.com (that MPD doesn’t actually seem to cite), but it includes plant-based milks, and I don’t think that gives meaningful numbers. I’ll drink a soy latte with a steak any day. I’m lactose intolerant.
NIH has the most reliable study, that settled around 2/3 of plant-meat consumers are omnivores. Which is saying something, but is also not surprising from the fact that almost 90% of the world consumes meat. So I think it sorta just runs out to nowhere, with regards to being a demographic thing. Clearly, vegans and vegetarians are more likely to consume plant-based meat than meat-eaters. With 10% of Americans being vegetarian and representing over 30% of plant-based meat consumers, they’re eating that stuff up.
There’s actually a lot of plant based meat that are chemical / preservative free
Literally everything in this sentence is wrong.
My dude… Says who? You? It’s not hard to Google - you find lists of them when you do.
Chemical free food? Everything is a chemical. Not hard to google that
“plant-based” is not “meat”. Are there “meat-based plants?”
All food is comprised of “chemicals”.
Thank you, it drives me nuts when people say shit like “chemical-free”. Everything is made out of chemicals, tell me which one otherwise I’ll just assume you’re uneducated and afraid of things you can’t pronounce.
I love both, I’m not sure I know any real person who thinks this is a competition
Every vegan I know is on some sort of culinary journey.
Vegan btw
Vegan from protein shakes lol
Same, it’s nice having more options. Apparently that’s a bad thing according to some.
That’s because this meme isn’t about veganism at all, it’s about anti west narratives
It’s not enough to be vegan, or enough to tell people you are vegan. You have to be a better vegan than them.
You have to be a better vegan than them.
Didn’t you know? Todd’s vegan!
Vegone?
Vegans are great, especially with garlic in a nice butter sauce.
Edit: also you’re literally made out of chemicals.
Literally not a single thing in our world isn’t chemicals. Lemontek - chemicals interacting. Alcohol for some party - Chemicals. Every part of any meal - chemicals. All of it.
I love how lemon tek was your first example
That one’s just for you. People always go off about it being a natural chemical reaction etc and it’s timely with all the conversation about growing acception of psychadelics for mental health
In general I think people are referring to things that are either A) heavily proccesed and/or B) something that isn’t naturally occurring. When they speak about “chemicals”
Your body is made to eat natually occuring plants and animals. Any deviation from that is risking long term issues. Effects that are very often (at least here in the states) ignored unless they just straight up kill you. And even then it’ll probably take a couple decades before anyone actually does something about it. So, yes while many people misuse the word “chemical,” their fear is not misplaced. You should be skeptical of things that are synthesized until they are proven to interact with the human body appropriately
B) something that isn’t naturally occurring
- Humans are natural. We are evolved animals.
- Humans created everything humans consider artificial.
- Therefore everything deemed artificial is actually natural.
🤓
Yea yea. You know what I mean
I’m sure cows do not care that the beef in them is healthy
Yeah, that argument is idiotically obtuse.
I think we need to understand what definition people are using for “chemicals”. They usually are referring to highly processed ingredients, with highly processed preservatives, highly processed artificial flavors (called “natural flavors”, but taken for example from the anal glans of a beaver… yes this is real and common). By the broadest definition, absolutely everything is a chemical. Generally, people should avoid any definition for a word that makes the word nonsensical. And also generally, you will find big lobbyist groups using that general definition to shell-game about the specific chemicals they are trying to protect.
When a food-concerned person mentions chemicals, they are referring to things like antibiotics or hormones, preservatives or processed sweeteners with known side-effects. Some of them are talking about isolates, like soy protein isolate to which there are valid health concerns.
And yes, sometimes people referring to chemicals don’t know what chemicals they’re complaining about. And yes, sometimes people complaining about chemicals are complaining that their meatless burger’s consistency comes from methyl cellulose, (probably) completely harmless but absolutely artificial.
The same way some vegans are made ill by the thought of meat, some folks are made ill by flavor- or consistency-related facts in their food. I mean, I think vegans would be concerned to know the beaver anal secretions above was in some plant milks under the term “natural flavors”.
Yes! I was merely poking fun, but I very much enjoyed reading through your comment. Thanks for clarifying for us!
Sorry, must be having a very literal day today. My wife says they’re common ;)
Don’t you dare be sorry, I genuinely love the energy put into clarification and pedantic detail
That just made my day, thanks!
Is light a chemical?
It’s not a thing.
Granted, there are things in this world that aren’t chemicals. Muons, stuff at the LHC, plasma… But everything that a normal person interacts with is a chemical.
I’m a vegetarian, but feel free to cover me in butter and smother me in garlic anyway.
✅ Peppers
❌ Capsaicin
YW
Different cultures have different fucking food preferences, more at 11
Ohhhh scary, buzzz words… Chemicals.
It’s literally just heme, the same thing that makes meat delicious. They just get it from plants instead.
Don’t forget the preservatives!
I, on the other hand, enjoy all-natural pickled vegetables, which are just regular vegetables immersed in water,
sodium chloride, acetic acid & trace flavors — chemicals which act as preservatives for the vegetablessea salt and vinegar.deleted by creator
when I went vegan, I started eating practically exclusively Indian food. dal, chana masala, aloo gobi, so many delicious foods.
Samosa!!
Try some Mediterranean recipes. Gazpacho, sopes mallorquines, …
Most vegans in the US do not eat food that mimics meat.
Most Western butt holes cannot handle Indian food that well. The couple times I went to Indian weddings, I was clamoring for anything that would not burn my butthole. The good combined with the ridiculous amount of alcohol made the toilets cry.
Try a fiber supplement. Or eating vegetables.
As a Canadian Caucasian I concur that we should all eat more vegetables.
The fiber is not the issue. I’m good on that. It was the spiciness that was the problem. I can handle a little bit of spice but there was pretty much no reprieve.
there are plenty of Indian recipes that’s not spicy.
but also it’s a good idea to just build a bit of spicy food tolerance.
The problem is when someone else is deciding how spicy to make it.
You need to focus on the creamy, typically lighter colored curries. Butter chicken, korma, things like that.
The anus has taste buds in it, so when it’s spicy enough going down it can be spicy again coming out haha.
But why the fuck are there taste buds in there?
I don’t know, that’s a stereotype that may not be true. I mean, I’ll also make fun of my culture’s lack of spice and spice tolerance, but I’m the opposite data point. I love spicy food, prepare very spicy food for my kids, and on my one trip to India had at least the spice tolerance of my Indian co-workers. We’re not all white bread and mayonnaise
“spicy food” doesnt mean the same thing depending on cuisine. Different types of heat are used in different dishes.
I can eat mexican meals for days and have no issues, cholula and all.
Meanwhile mild indian is usually a treat that sets off a small bomb in my gut.
Also, people make fun of americans like we dont have fuckloads of hot sauce brands all over the place. We live next door to mexico, guys, we have plenty of spicy cuisine.
I’ll have you know our British digestive systems can handle almost anything from over 60 years of Indian, Pakistani, Carribbean and Mexican food. When Taco Bell arrived on our shores it was bland disappointment compared to existing burrito outlets, especially given all the hype that it apparently puts an American in the toilet for hours :(
Taco bell gives you the shits because its poorly cooked meat with a lot of beans, not because the food is good or spicy
My only problem with Indian food. Whenever I try a restaurants it’s shit. But when my coworkers would bring in a feast on Diwali, it was my favorite time of year.
I can’t find any restaurants that taste even similar to their home cooked meals.
The best indian food I’ve ever had from a restaurant was from a truck stop in the middle of nowhere off I-80 in Nebraska.
Sounds about right honestly It’s a shame the best food comes from the most random and niche places
That’s because you can’t beat home cooked meals.
Yeah, the same goes for Korean food. I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of produce. In the west produce is often picked before it’s ripe because we have to ship it hundreds of miles. They also tend to change the spices and sweetness to accommodate western pallets.
That’s my experience as well. The food my Pakistani friend cooks is amazing but when I order the same thing at a restaurant it looks delicious but it tastes like poking your tongue out the window. I guess restaurants has to cater to western palates to make money and many westoids have very low spice tolerance.
That may be more of a problem with the restaurants where you live. I live in San Antonio and we have dozens and dozens of exceptional Indian restaurants where everything feels like it’s a home cooked meal. I definitely miss Diwali before the pandemic though. My old company had a lot of Indian workers and the spread of food they would bring in was always incredible.
What a bunch of dumb gatekeeping
It’s a meme
It’s still stupid and spawning stupid conversations
…which you’re participating in. So what does that make you? 🧐
Idk but this comment makes you look brain dead
No, it’s shit.
