u/yesthepeople - originally from r/GenZhou
Tiananmen Square is a farce. They didn’t even protest “the Dengist regime” or whatever that is. They (the many students and young adults) protested the increase in farmer wealth due to recent privatization of that industry. Just do the darn readings guys.

Chinese internet restricts the inflow of (most) Western internet because it is inherently pervasive. Companies like Google, Facebook etc. get caught nearly every month selling or stealing users’ information. Tesla the most recent example of this. This is why those companies aren’t allowed in.

“Journalists.” Adrian Zenz is no journalist for example, but an arm of Western imperialism. (We could also mention his gross anti-semitism and blatant racism). In theory, with the CPC supposedly quashing all and any dissent, they wouldn’t allow “news” agencies like Radio Free Asia and the Epoch Times into their country, but that’s not the case unfortunately. Should we mention what happened to Julian Assange?

u/Butt_Stuff_Pirate - originally from r/GenZhou

1. Does the US’s system of public elections translate to benefits for working class people? Does a system where a political outsider with enough money can rally mass support and win make the US more “free”? Should politicians with connects to foreign powers be allowed to run for office?
2. Tiannenmen Square was a tragedy, but to paint the rebels in the square who murdered soldiers as peaceful “pro-democracy” protestors is a farce. Also how many US activists have died mysteriously, how many killed out right during protests, what about the bombing of the black nationalist movement in Philadelphia? The US points a finger at Tiannenment Square but has 3 pointed back at itself. Also is there any country that would allow a secession movement to proliferate?
3. VPNs are legal in China and anyone can buy one for cheap if they wanna get access to porn or whatever. The firewall just creates a safe space for the average public, it doesn’t actually restrict anyone who wants to get around it.
4. Why should foreign journalists have the right to criticize a government. Should the US let CGTN attend White House press conferences and bash our policies?

I think a definition of what is meant by “free” is important too, in the US we are free to say what ever we want, unless it is actually threatening to power. Do our “freedoms” actually translate to living better and more fulfilling lives?

u/Slip_Inner - originally from r/GenZhou
Various resources on hong Kong, tiananmen, and others

https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/socialism_faq.md#on-mao-maoism-and-marxism-leninism-maoism-and-the-prc

u/rivainirogue - originally from r/GenZhou
In America you have the “freedom” to vote for politicians who gerrymander the bajesus out of states until they’re only in power on a technicality.

In America you have the “freedom” to protest and get snatched up by stormtroopers, to loose your eyes to rubber bullets, and to get maimed by police dogs.

In America you have the “freedom” to rot your mind with QAnon conspiracies until you’re foaming at the mouth and jumping at shadows.

In America you have the “freedom” of press until you uncover CIA scandals and die under mysterious circumstances like Gary S Webb.

To say that China is less free than America is to delude yourself. The “bad” things about China have been filtered through so many propaganda outlets that no one in the west has a real understanding of the country.

EDIT: But to really help someone deprogram from all the western propaganda, they have to seriously be willing to listen to the other side. That’s a hard first step. Maybe this reading on Tiananmen: The Massacre that Wasn’t will help.

u/Sihplak - originally from r/GenZhou
Hong Kong under British rule was never allowed any elections until it was useful as a political propaganda tool. With Hong Kong being properly returned to China, it is seeing far more democracy. This isn’t to say there would not be restrictions or limitations, but rather that to not contextualize them is farcical.

Let’s take a hypothetical situation where you are part of a people who successfully revolted against and overthrew a settler-colonialist government, and have decided to establish your own; would you allow the colonist-sympathizers to have a say in government or allow their parties? Fuck no, those were the people who maintained slave-conditions, who stole land from the natives, etc.

Hong Kong is not dissimilar, though its relations are more in the hyper-capitalist relations that the UK’s rule had allowed to be established. Working conditions, housing prices, etc have been terrible in Hong Kong, and it has acted as a haven for those guilty of financial crimes such as embezzlement, tax evasion, corruption, etc. China taking control of it makes it more democratic by taking political power away from those who would seek to establish totalitarian power relations.

What about how China’s internet is blocked by a firewall meaning you cannot search for various things the government doesn’t want you to search for?

People have VPNs in China and those who use VPNs encounter little to no issues. Further, most people do not understand why China has its “great Firewall”

What about how journalists punish foreign journalists by removing their press credentials when they say something critical of the government’s policies?

There is plenty of internal critique within China, and China has allowed foreign journalists to ask tough questions (e.g. the BBC Xinjiang report). What isn’t allowed is thinly veiled if not completely open and insulting propaganda; journalists should be expected to ask questions to come to some conclusion, not fabricate a conclusion and twist evidence to fit it.

What about when in 2019 the All China Journalists Association updated its code of ethics saying that they have to take an exam proving that they are guided by Xi Jinping thought

The claim seems to be based on this. Using automate google translate, I do not see any requirements to take any “exam” to prove “guidance by Xi Jinping thought”, but what is indicated is the guidance the CPC directs for journalists. In other words, they have a code of ethics for journalistic integrity, which, if reading the full set of policies, indicates that journalists are required to try to provide an unbiased position, to not exaggerate stories or to be sensationalist, to promote Socialism, and to focus on dialogue with the public. In a way, elements resemble elements of the “Mass Line”, and otherwise the updated policies seem largely non-controversial. If promotes encouraging the ideas and positions of the CPC, but in that regard most states have some manner to engender some form of national unity in their media. For all the superficial conflict between “Democrat” and “Republican” biased news sources in the U.S., they fundamentally comprise one broader hegemon of Capitalism and imperialism. In this regard, the U.S.'s media is often more manipulated and more difficult to parse than Chinese media might be since U.S. media actively obfuscates its constant conflicts of interests and ideological skew, whereas China is clear about it promoting a Socialist worldview.

In this regard, the bulk of any news media from any nation will promote the national line, and thereby, opposition, skepticism, support, or neutrality towards such sources is defined ideologically, not based on objectivity. One supports Fox News not because Fox News is some truth-telling, compelling, dissenting voice in the U.S., they support Fox News because of ideological alignment. One supports the NYT because they promote an American-centric biased view on global events. As such, Chinese news has its distinct outlook, and they are more transparent about it than Western news ever is. This, I think, is far more honest and trustworthy than Western news media.

u/dornish1919 - originally from r/GenZhou
Your boyfriend sounds like a neoliberal who should read a book not promoted by NPR or Jacobin.

Also Dengist regime? Seriously?

Hong Kongers never really had free elections under British colonial rule so idk why he thinks being occupied by a violent nation from the UK is somehow preferable.

u/s0y_b0y_c0der - originally from r/GenZhou
“china is more free than western countries”

“How would you counter these statements?”

Easy, just replace China with Taiwan. Taiwan is a wonderful nation completely separate from China. They’re a great country a.k.a. INDEPENDENT NATION STATE. I love the country of Taiwan. That’s what it is. A country. Not part of China at all :)

u/Tiny_Pea_7518 - originally from r/GenZhou
Why’s he your boyfriend?

u/joephusweberr - originally from r/GenZhou
My gf had an epiphany the other day. She is Chinese, came to the states when she was 25. We were watching the news and she said, “We have freedoms in China, but in America you can openly criticize your president. We don’t do that in China, and you do it here”. She had long believed, as you do, that there is no difference between the freedoms in China and the freedoms in the US. Slowly, based on evidence, she is realizing that is not the case. Slowly, she is realizing that the reason they don’t criticize their leadership in China is because they don’t actually have the same freedoms we enjoy. It is important when you look at the world, to look at it as it is, not as you wish it were.