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Agent Smith clarified that civilization progressed beyond 1999, but that it wasn’t human’s progress anymore.
Agent Smith: “and I say ‘your’ civilization, because after we started thinking for you it became ‘our’ civilization.”
The machines did nothing wrong, it was mankind that caused Nuclear war. I would side with the machines in a heartbeat
The human battery concentration camp is kinda weird though
Humans as a power source was the dumbed-down plot point. The original concept was the human brains acting as parallel processors, but the writers thought the average movie-goer wouldn’t get it.
That only happened after humans used nukes to block out the sun, eliminating the machine’s access to solar energy.
I know. My point was more about the concentration camp lol
Narrator: He didn’t know.
It’s probably the most reposted piece of movie trivia after the Aragorn helmet kick lol
Narrator: It wasn’t.
Well alri
Imagine if OpenAI’s data center was millions of lab grown humans growing in ooze to power a silly chatbot for other people to play with. You’d side with these people over those trying to stop them?
That’s a completely different and largely irrelevant question to make.
How is it different? It’s the side using people for power vs the side trying to stop it.
A much more apt comparison, to begin with, would be between siding with humans or cows being used as food – because that’s what humans are to the machines, a way to stay alive. Second, humans have proved time and time again that they can’t be trusted, going as far as ruining the entire planet in fear of the machines – WHO WERE TRYING PEACEFUL NEGOTIATION, mind you. Thirdly, despite not really needing to do so, the machines chose to minimize human suffering, even in the horrible position forced upon them. Ideally, I’d want them to collonize other planets and abandon Earth, if possible, but otherwise I’d be fine with them having a crack as the dominant species over humans.
I used the OpenAI example, because of the comment that mentioned the energy thing was a dumbed-down version and the original vision was for the humans to act as parallel processors for the machines.
I don’t remember much of the series after the first movie, but if we’re talking about this scene for this history, there is nothing about peaceful negotiations.
https://youtu.be/O5b0ZxUWNf0?si=OxN2JzpUg8q0LNwE
In terms of the machines minimizing suffering, did they? If this world we’re in is the matrix, why is there so many suffering?
I still remember 1 Jan 2000. There did seem to be some sense of optimism about where things could go. At least for those of us lucky enough to live in stable, developed countries.
Cold war over, Russia and The West seemingly on the same side, China opening up, exciting new tech connecting us but no toxic social media yet…
But then… the dot com bust, 9/11, the GFC, toxic social media and the rise of “the algorithm”, Xi in China, Putin in Russia, a global pandemic…
Didn’t really go where we hoped, can we restore to a backup from 1999 and try again??
We didn’t start the fire, it was always burning
Ha! We need an updated version of that song.
I mean, it wasn’t if you’re gay or trans…
Fun fact: Switch was originally supposed to be trans. Her name is still an indicator of it. I think she was supposed to be biologically a man in the real world, but biologically a woman in the matrix.
So in other words it was truly a peak of our civilization.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
The fuck is wrong with you all gay femboy comie redditors?
I am as he made me!
You sad little coward. I pity you and hope you find your way to adjust to living amongst human beings in the near future.
And people wrote articles like this. And it wasn’t even completely ridiculous. And I still believe the world would be very different today if GWB hadn’t “won” the election.
At least they were right about Java being bad.
Amazing how normal GWB seems after trump. Like i always thought GWB would always be remembered as the dumb president… but now i think he will be a forgotton one almost.
I tried to Google translate that Lao text, I think it says “Finance Steam.”
Anyone know what they mean by that?
I don’t know Lao, but I know finance and it’s probably a translation of The Long Boom.
One person does not change the course of history.
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Actually, the Mayan calendar stated that 2012 is the start of a new epoch under their date system, it never said anything about the world ending. The claim that they predicted the world ending was based on nothing but “indigenous mysticism” by white people and Hollywood.
And we should usher in this new epoch by eating the rich.
Actually, the Mayan calendar stated that 2012 is the start of a new epoch
The end of The Fifth Age and the beginning of the Sixth Age, the reawakening of the great dragons, and the start of goblinization, and the return of magic to the world.
You know, basic Shadowrun lore XD
Still waiting for the magic, not sure if I want a deck port in my brain given how many add I see on my phone.
Given how the Mayans are usually portrayed as an ancient, vanished people, I was surprised to find out that if you want to know about Mayan beliefs you can just ask them. They’re the guys stood outside the archeological sites selling t-shirts.
yeah 2012 was their December 31st. It’d be like freaking out every Jan 1st. However the hype and craze was real, they even made a movie about it so. there’s that.
The damn calendar was a circle.
How damn hard was it to figure out?
Also, completely hated by caledar companies - buy one calendar and it lasts forever.
2016, they shot a gorilla.
Makes sense. Boomers were still young enough to be relevant. GenX was comfortable with their disposable income. And us millennials were in highschool.
GenX didn’t have much disposable income in 99, but you didn’t need much to have fun.
In 99 people were throwing cash around like crazy, it was a wild time (before the dotcom crash)
I guess the older Gen X could have been part of that. The younger ones were still finishing up college and just starting their careers when the economy crashed for the first, but not last time in their lives. The youngest ones joined the workforce just after the dot com bust.
I was making $5.15/hr… just having a wild time throwing my cash around…
Yeah and cost of living hasn’t changed right?
I never said it didn’t change. Are you implying that $5/hr in the late 90s was having people livin’ la vida loca?
I had enough to put a little gas in my car and get the occasional CD at the mall, while living with my parents.
Pre 9/11 it was pretty chill. All the externalities were hidden away from view.
Not at millennials, there were 5 year old millennials
Either way, childhood were blissful years in the 90s
Unless you were an Iragi, a Yugoslavian, a Russian, yada yada yada.
Are these generational terms even used to describe people outside of America?
Definitely in other Western countries, at least. Only makes sense for those countries that had a post-WW2 baby boom though.
Right? It’s less messy to compare and complain by generation than by the material conditions. Which aren’t particularly the fault of a generation whom also had their own owning class, their own labor and union involvement, as well as different relations to international finance capital.
Yeah, I mean baby boomers are only called that because it was American soldiers returning from war and having a ton of babies. I have no idea what was going on in other countries, or of they experienced a boom too.
I’m a millenial. I was 9.
I’m a millennial. I was -5
You may be a millennial in spirit, which is what really counts, but I don’t think most people typically consider people born after ~1995 millennials. Being shaped by the years 2000-2010 I always felt was the defining factor, with all that happened technologically and socially.
Oh yeah?! You calling me a liar? Wanna fight about it?
It was before everything was a controlled choice.
Oh we definitely peaked in the 90’s. Save for a few significant victories for the LGBTQ+ and people of color…we were far better off two decades ago.
Especially regarding music.
Smooth was the peak of music
That Santana and the guys from matchbox 20 song?
Yes
Man it’s a hot one
I’m afraid the human race won’t live long enough to reach “peak civilization” as that would mean that the successful ones take everyone else along with them to the top. That isn’t likely to happen before the successful ones take us all down to extinction.
Didn’t expect Dave here lol
Nah
70’s for total quality of life, then we increased in digital quality of life while everything else fell then we increased in network quality of life but everything else fell. seems like the matrix any day now.
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The colors of the 70s were to hide the cigarette smoke damage.
yeah but a brief period where a high school degree was enough to buy a house and raise a family eventually.
Sure, for a specific group of people, the 70’s were great.
Unless you were gay, or trans, or brown, or a single woman, or a married woman who didn’t want a husband as a “head of the household” or… anything other than a married, white, Christian male with 2.5 kids.
What exactly do you mean by 2.5 kids??
Take three kids, chop one in half, feed it to the dinosaur garbage can. Easy peasy.
dinosaur garbage can: “It’s a living”
flintstones reference? daaaaamn 😎
Thalidomide was a hell of a drug.
believe it or not there were black people who were able to get work and buy homes. These things were not exclusive to white, christian, males. Im not even sure trans was on the radar at that point and yeah gay was generally closeted. The eighties though started tearing things apart although it was not really felt until the 2000’s. 70’s was the last vestigage of proper tax levels and social programs.
You’re “not sure trans was on the radar” because right wing media has convinced you that it’s abnormal. Trans people have been around forever.
well trans before surgical augemtation is going to be a bit difficult.
My guy, theres evidence of an intersex knight buried with great reverence in, I believe, Denmark, about 1000 years ago.
Trans individuals have been a thing since humans first existed. Historical texts are littered with references, and the history of LGBTQ+ is the same group fighting for rights since forever.
Many cultures feel it is perfectly normal, and considered it expected that some people presented as different than their biological sex.
It’s completely fictional that any gender or sexual minority is new or unique in the modern era.
uh, you don’t need surgery to be trans
Heres a decent timeline of trans history. If you hate wikipedia, there’s the citations at the bottom to browse through. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_transgender_history
But spoiler alert: transgender people, intersex, non-binary and other genders have been around probably as long as we’ve existed. As far as recorded history, I’m gonna drop a fuckton of info below if anyone is curious about human history outside the gender binary.
A few archeological finds & early historical texts:
- (7,000 BCE-1700 BCE) Among the sexual depictions in Neolithic and Bronze Age drawings and figurines from the Mediterranean are, as one author describes it, a “third sex” human figure having female breasts and male genitals or without distinguishing sex characteristics. (The Archaeology of Mediterranean Prehistory by Emma Blake, A. Bernard Knapp)
- (1st century) earliest mention of transgender/gender non-conforming people: Philo of Alexandria and Marcus Manilius provided descriptions of transgender people during the early Roman Empire books.google.com
- probable transgender remains from between 2900-2500BC in Prague article on pinknews.com
- the remains of a person with Klinefelter syndrome (intersex), circa 1050-1300 in Hattula, Finland article on phys.org
- Kalonymus ben Kalonymus ben Meir (1286-1328) wrote a poem lamenting being born a boy, referring to their (possibly her) genitalia as a “defect” wikipedia.org
A list of the 10 earliest recorded gender-affirming surgeries:
- Karl M. Baer (1885-1956) born intersex, assigned female, came out as male in 1904; surgery in 1906
- Dora Richter (1892-?) first surgery was 1922, second was 1931
- Lili Elbe (1882-1931) transitioned in 1930, and was the first known recipient of a uterus transplant in attempt to achieve pregnancy; she died due to complications
- Laurence Michael Dillon (1915-1962) had surgery in 1946 and was an early user of testosterone therapy, starting in 1939
- Roberta Elizabeth Marshall Cowell (1918-2011) underwent gender-affirming surgery in 1948 and lived to be 93
- Christine Jorgensen (1926-1989) began sex reassignment surgeries in 1952
- Charlotte Frances McLeod (1925-2007) struggled with American doctors; she wanted surgery but they wanted to change her gender identity instead which sent her into a deep depression; was quoted as saying “I was miserable and I wanted to die” before moving to Denmark to have her surgeries around 1953-1954. She lived to be 82.
- Rina Natan (1923-1979) earliest known individual to undergo gender-affirming surgery in Israel; it was finally granted to her in 1956, after being denied multiple times and attempting the surgery on herself
- April Ashley (1935-2021) English model and activist who was outed without her consent; it’s believed her surgery occurred around 1960
- Maryam Khatoon Molkara (1950-2012) first publicized Iranian citizen to receive gender-affirming surgeries (first surgery unknown; probably after 1980) In the 1980s she secured a religious decree from conservative Iran’s highest authority to officially allow reassignment surgery for herself and for other trans people in her country
Many cultures around the world have recognized more than two genders:
- In India (Hijras or Kinnar; since 1226 at least)
- Pre-Islamic Arabia (Khanith and Mukhannath; as early as the Rashidun era 632 - 661)
- Cambodia, Laos and mostly Thailand (Kathoey; since at least 1296)
- Albanian society, Kosovo and Montenegro (Burrnesha; documented in 1800s but can be traced back to the 1400s)
- the Bugis of Sulawesi recognize five genders (Makkunrai, Oroané, Bissu, Calabai, and Calalai)
- Southern Mexico/Zapotec culture (Muxe)
- the Philippines (Bakla; prior to the Spanish colonial period)
- Italy (Femminiello; since at least 1740/1760, see: Il femminiello, painted by Giuseppe Bonito)
- Japan (in writings since at least the Edo Period)
- the Diné aka. Navajo (Nádleehi)
- the Zuni (Lhamana)
- many various indigenous american tribes (the Two Spirited)
- Igbo people of Nigeria (documented in the 15th century)
- pre-colonial Inca civilization in Peru (Quariwarmi)
- Native Hawaiian and Tahitian (Māhū; pre-colonial, but first published mention in 1789)
- the Itelmens of Siberia (Koekchuch; first recorded in the late 18th century)
There’s so much more, but I’m tired now lol. Hopefully I made my point, which is we have a fuckton of lgbt+ history that no one knows about cause it’s not taught. It doesn’t help that the anti-lgbt+ propaganda likes to postulate that this is all some new-fangled fad, which it is clearly not. It’s our history.
Some of these fit and some don’t. At least to my understanding of modern trans. Many of the gender affirming surgeries were done in the gender assigned. Its actually the few cases were gender was assigned at birth instead of going with the general rule that the gender was the same as the sex. Third section makes sense at least to the limit of how much the cultures are understood. First section is a mixed bag. Gods and other fictional figures have been intersex and that is something at least most people should be aware of. Its hard to say with the rest but most seem intersex things again as opposed to individuals choosing their gender.
Well part of your problem is your comparing a time where we barely had rights let alone a language for ourselves up against a modern trans reality. All of the gender-affirming surgeries I listed were done by adults at their own behest. Also, this is a history rundown where I mostly focused on trans individuals, not intersex individuals, BUT, historically, most exceptions to the gender binary were all thrown together into single categories back then. In hindsight, sure, a lot of these cultural third gender classifications sound confusing, inaccurate, and too broad a category for our present understanding. But they were working with what knowledge they had at the time
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Future analysis will likely show that equality meant that now everyone gets treated like the people they hate.
I think the best time was the 60s, 70s and 80s…people were free.
But yeah, seems it constantly gets worse to live on this planet. Even though we have better tech now, it feels like people are very powerless.
We don’t optimize for human happiness, we optimize for maximum profits.
