What a disingenuous statement. By not agreeing to do it he is complicit in major acts of war, i.e. whatever attacks the Russians do with their fleet. What a tosser.
so while I hate this guy, starlink is complicit in the war either way. either for russia, or for ukraine.
just because he decides to get involved in how it will be used, otherwise he would just be an internet provider
War is peace.
Musk is love.
Starlink was specifically agreed for civilian use only. It’s the Ukraine who tries to breach that agreement, SpaceX simply doesn’t want to be accused of exporting weapons
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And the US government was left scrambling to get a formal contract in for Ukrainian access after Musk started to publicly spout pro kremlin shit. So there’s no way an ITAR argument could fly: the DoD wanted a contract to help ensure starlink availability for fucks sake, especially since Musk proved unreliable and a useful idiot for Putin’s wildest assplay desires.
DoD wanted a contract to help ensure starlink availability for fucks sake
Contract for civilian use mind you. Strapping starlinks to kamikaze drones is a whole different story
Why would the DoD negotiate a contract for civilian use? That’s not their job.
why would the american ARMY look for a starlink contract to offer to the ukrainian ARMY if not for war purposes? you need to start using your brain or stop choking on billionaire balls.
but whether the US government thinks it can be used as a weapon.
That’s even worse because US government can change it’s stance on starlink any time - which would be disaster for SpaceX
Yeah, if a much larger country was invading, shelling apartment buildings, mining the fuck out of farmland and murdering thousands of people, I’d probably breach a ToS.
Also, that sounds a bit absurd considering he just got the US DoD to pay for Ukraine’s starlink service.
No it wasn’t. The Pentagon pays for the service explicitly as military aid to Ukraine. Since, you know, Russia blew up a lot of Ukrainian infrastructure.
Saying ‘the Ukraine’ gives away your loyalties, tovarisch.
Uber wealthy private citizens able to control the path of wars in countries they don’t live in.
That’s some dystopian shit.
It’s important to note that the company, and the technology being used was not created by him, too. He just bought it… And now he’s doing evil things with it while he pretends he’s some sort of anti-war hero.
Like… Congratulations, douchebag, you helped a defend an evil superpower during their active, unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation involving countless war crimes and crimes against humanity. What a fuckin’ hero you are, Elon.
The way he phrases it is as if Ukraine asked him to enable them to make the attack. They asked him to switch it back on, because he had explicitly disabled service in the area, after giving the devices to Ukraine in the first place.
So they can Netflix and chill during the Russian invasion. That’s definitely what these devices were for. No way Elon could’ve known there was any military usage in a country desperately fighting for it’s existance.
He’s said as much… That’s the really fucked up part. He’s behind
“Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes”. -Elon Musk
Like… ‘don’t worry about the war crimes, just Netflix and chill, Ukraine.’
Fuck Elon Musk.
Elon doesn’t get it. He is neck deep in it. With his denying he helps the Invaders whereas with his allowance he would have helped ukraine fighting for their freedom.
He should be put on a list now imho.
Moscow simply paid him more than Kyiv. Probably accompanied by the phrase “Would be a shame if these pictures got out”.
We’ve seen him shirtless. They can’t show us anything worse than that.
Hasn’t he been photographed with Ghislane Maxwell? There’s probably much worse out there.
The video involving an excessively bear like Russian man and Musk bent over saying “Use me daddy!”, while wearing nothing but a pair of frilly, white, crotchless panties?
As long as I can’t see Musk’s weird torso.
Oh it shows every fold, ripple and moan.
Like a slightly hairy ham that’s been left out for too long in august.
Kiev isn’t paying NATO is to the tune of billions a month. He is charging like 30k a terminal. This war is actmakinv starlink money. Like a full on profit since no home user can pay 30k a year per terminal . It’s billions a month.
Mm nothing like a warm bowl of wartime profiteering.
30k a terminal per month? why bother with pretense, just say you want the entire nation’s GDP for the next 30+ years
LOL… Ukraine isn’t paying for it . Last I saw it was Poland and the USA.
Ukraine is taking on the debt, so they kind of are
Alternate take: Elon Musk knowingly and intentionally prolonged the war in Ukraine. Sinking the Russian fleet at anchor would have been the most expedient way to end the war with as few casualties as possible. It’s really really hard to fight a war without a navy.
The last time we capitulated to a dictator who invaded Europe, they didn’t stop with just the first invasion. Just because Putin has threatened to use nuclear weapons doesn’t mean we have to roll over for him and give him an easy win in Ukraine.
Elon Musk denied internet service in Ukraine to assist a foreign invading Navy. Star link needs to be nationalized and taken away. Pay him for it and remove him from any part.
Which country will nationalize literal satellites flying outside of any country’s jurisdiction?
The countries where the companies resides
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If anything, Ukraine having control over the Black Sea means they can prolong their effort in the war, not end it quicker.
Yes because somehow Ukraine defeating Russia will lead to the war continuing… what the fuck is wrong with you.
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That’s not what I’m saying. Russia having control over the black sea means more for Ukraine than for Russia, as it’s essentially the only route to deliver supplies to Ukraine. Russia has plenty of other routes to continue supplying the war effort. Taking back control over those waters means Ukraine can more easily import and export supplies and it extends their ability to fight the war, but it doesn’t do much to actually push Russia out (except maybe cut Russia off from a quick retreat out of Crimea).
Taking out the Russian fleet undoubtedly would have helped Ukraine, i don’t dispute that, I just don’t think it would have expedited any kind of end to the war because Russia has other options both for supplying their positions and in launching attacks and defenses.
If we believe Ukraine will win in the end, something that helps Ukraine should also help them win sooner. That is the opposite of prolonging as you claim.
Seems to me that although this war is drawing out, the tides are turning to favor Ukraine more than Russia.
Yes, but I don’t belive that. Sometimes good guys lose. And as inefficient and slow the Russian army is, it has multiple times the resources, and don’t make the mistake of thinking they are stupid or something like that, because you would underestimate your opponent.
“The tides are turning in favor of Ukraine” is something we’ve been hearing since the start of the war and I’m believing it less and less by the day.
This entire war is only continuing because Russia wants to protect it’s naval base. Without a navy there is no tactical reason for Russia to hold Crimea over any other part of Ukraine.
This is a pretty wild claim, but if it’s true then it’s the best argument for a treaty I’ve heard. If all they want is access to the sea, no need to continue warring over Crimea or Donbas, just sign another lease to the port
Though I’ve repeatedly heard their justifications for annexing Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia, so I don’t think anyone has any reason to believe they’d leave if they were just allowed to “protect their naval base”
I’m getting the feeling this is more of a “vibes” conversation though, sorry for throwing off the vibes
So … sign a lease to the military that is invading them to keep a military base inside their borders. The military base Russia has been using to launch an invasion of Ukraine…
There can’t be a treat with Russia because in 2014 Russia took crimea then after nearly a decade used it to invade the rest of Ukraine. They had exactly what you offer and Russia found it insufficient. Ukraine made no significant movement to crimea beyond diplomacy. This must be settled with a withdraw of Russia of a defeat. Anything else is just giving Russia time to invade again. Appeasement was tried by the west and fully failed
I agree. A war usually ends with one of the sides overpowering their opponent. The bombing would have made Ukraine stronger and Russia weaker relatively, but in that process it would have only made the playing field more level. Something that doesn’t happen when the end of a war is nearing.
While I hate elon, this is a bad take. Ukraine and russia boarder each other. Most of the fighting has been over land. What good is a navy in such a battle? The most I could think of is shelling but AFAIK russia has been doing it’s shelling with traditional artillery. Further, Russia’s navy is a hot garbage mess. They only have 1 aircraft carrier and it’s been scuttled for pretty much the entire war (and has constantly caught on fire while being scuttled).
The only wars that are hard to fight without a navy are wars where a significant portion of the warring nation and front-lines are near the water. That’s not this war.
Not to say there aren’t advantages to Ukraine sinking the russian navy. But rather, it’s unlikely that “the war would have ended tomorrow if they did”.
All this time, for 500+ days, Russia has been launching missiles at Ukraine from SHIPS, among other locations. You didn’t notice? Seriously?
The russian navy can exert control and is a threat to the hundreds of kilometrrs of black sea cost as well as the ukrainian ports being absolutely crucial to the ukranian economy.
Also dictators like their fancy navy. Blowing it up would damage Putins image tremendously
No disagreement, it would be a blow to russia. I just don’t think it would have ended the war. The navy simply hasn’t played a major role in this war.
the navy acts as mobile missile bases, they also allow Russia to move supplies by water, with there only being 2 land routes to most of the front, the ability to use shipping to bypass blockades, the sinking of the Russian fleet would also have allowed Ukrainians to more easily destroy the bridge between Russia and Crimea, this would make 80%+ of Russian positions in Ukraine untenable in terms of holding militarily, and since Putin can’t afford to lose half his army in just a few months he would be forced to pull out and negotiate.
Fighting back counts as escalation?
And now he is complicit with numerous ship-based missile attacks on Ukrainian civilians.
The crazy thing is that the Air Force, Army, and just about every other branch of the military has contracted or is looking to contract with Space X to get Starlink. He doesn’t have a problem with providing the US with that capability because we’re not in direct conflict, but will deny it to ukraine when it’s in Russia’s favor.
After this I, I would totally re-look those agreements.
If he tried cutting off the US military during an active operation, his life could be made very bad very quickly.
That would be literal treason.
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shades of howard hughs level wacky, but no one ever thought he’d work with the russians.
And space-x represent a host of capabilities that certainly fall in the country’s direct security interest. nationalize spacex?
it would never ever be considered but musk is that fucking stupid.
also, he’s lost tens of billions via twitter, so he’s ripe for compromise.
tsk…
Correction. He doesn’t have a problem providing the US with service because the government pays a SHITLOAD for guaranteed access to that. Ukraine cannot afford such expenditures.
I think space X shouldn’t be involved with the war. It is not a military company. I don’t know, just my opinion.
How is counter attacking an aggressor’s military targets “escalation” ?
Because anything that isn’t “Ukraine rolls over and gives Russia everything,” is escalation. Obviously.
Nevermind that Russia is the aggressor who invaded another country and has been continually escalating the level of violence they’re using. Anything other countries do to help Ukraine is seen as prolonging the war, and anything that Ukraine does to fight back is called escalation.
Fellas, is humanitarianism when the world’s richest capitalist says, “you can borrow my stuff, but only if you use it when and how I want”.
Only if by “borrow” you mean “making the pentagon pay for it”.
I think the fact that to Elon Musk the morals of this are confusing to him, says a lot about who he really is.
Or rather confirms what many may have already expected for a while.
Russia started an unprovoked war against a peaceful neighbor. Ukraine is defending themselves, while Russia can end this instantly, by merely going home. How can Musk doubt the Ukrainians right to defend themselves?
As I see it, he can only do that by having no empathy or sense of morality, something he has shown in many situations now.
Also the escalation thing is a very clear Russian and Putin talking point. Russia call it Ukrainian escalation even if Russia did the same 10 times worse. The only escalation of this conflict is 100% due to Russia being the aggressor and their continued aggression.
He calls himself a free speech absolutist and uses saudi funds to buy twitter at the same time. Then the Saudis use twitter data to give the death penalty to people who don’t like them publicly on twitter and elon does - nothing.
It’s almost like the Saudis gave him the money for favors…
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How is he not in jail already?
I just can’t get my head around this.
The fuck ist happening here
Name 1 thing that hes done thats against the laws of the united states of america?
Aiding a terrorist regime by disabling this attack and losing Ukrainian assets. Acting as a foreign agent by discussing this with Putin. That’s two, right there.
We’ve sanctioned Russia heavily for this and begun providing that money to Ukraine as relief. They’ve stolen children from Ukraine. Elon is a war criminal.
Laws don’t apply to the rich my dude, we know this. Besides, if it were illegal to meddle with foreign states, there’s a laundry list of US administrations that would be guilty of that
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And how is this against the USA law?
First point:
- PROVIDING MATERIAL SUPPORT TO DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS (FUNDRAISING) (18 U.S.C. 2339B)
The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 gave the Secretary of State authority to designate foreign terrorist organizations whose terrorist activity threatens the security of United States nationals or the national defense, foreign relations or economic interests of the United States. See Pub. L. 104-132, § 302, 110 Stat. 1214, 1248. See also section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. § 1189). The Antiterrorism Act also created 18 U.S.C. § 2339B, which makes it unlawful, within the United States, or for any person who is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States anywhere, to knowingly provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization that has been designated by the Secretary of State. See Pub. L. 104-132, § 303, 110 Stat. 1214, 1250.
Note: The HARM act hasn’t passed yet, so this might be on shaky grounds. But he may yet find himself in violation. Also, I’m not a lawyer, and I’d bet there’s better ways to prosecute this.
Second point:
https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/frequently-asked-questions
What is FARA?
FARA is an acronym for the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938, as amended, 22 U.S.C. § 611 et seq. (“FARA” or “the Act”). FARA requires the registration of, and disclosures by, an “agent of a foreign principal” who, either directly or through another person, within the United States (1) engages in “political activities” on behalf of a foreign principal; (2) acts as a foreign principal’s public relations counsel, publicity agent, information-service employee, or political consultant; (3) solicits, collects, disburses, or dispenses contributions, loans, money, or other things of value for or in the interest of a foreign principal; or (4) represents the interests of the foreign principal before any agency or official of the U.S. government. In addition, FARA requires agents to conspicuously label “informational materials” transmitted in the United States for or in the interest of a foreign principal. There are some exemptions to FARA’s registration and labeling requirements for specified categories of agents and activities.
What are the penalties for violating FARA?
The penalty for a willful violation of FARA is imprisonment for not more than five years, a fine of up to $250,000, or both. Certain violations are considered misdemeanors, with penalties of imprisonment of not more than six months, a fine of not more than $5,000, or both. There are also civil enforcement provisions that empower the Attorney General to seek an injunction requiring registration under FARA (for applicable activities) or correcting a deficient registration statement.
You’d have a tough time in court with this one.
Elaborate
PROVIDING MATERIAL SUPPORT TO DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS (FUNDRAISING) (18 U.S.C. 2339B)
- Russian federation is not in the US’s list of terrorist organization
- He did not provide anything to Russian federation
FARA requires the registration of, and disclosures by, an “agent of a foreign principal” who, either directly or through another person, within the United States
(1) engages in “political activities” on behalf of a foreign principal;You’d have a hard time proving that this falls under “political activity” and that he did it because of foreign influence.
(2) acts as a foreign principal’s public relations counsel, publicity agent, information-service employee, or political consultant;
(3) solicits, collects, disburses, or dispenses contributions, loans, money, or other things of value for or in the interest of a foreign principal; or
(4) represents the interests of the foreign principal before any agency or official of the U.S. government. In addition, FARA requires agents to conspicuously label “informational materials” transmitted in the United States for or in the interest of a foreign principal. There are some exemptions to FARA’s registration and labeling requirements for specified categories of agents and activities.He does not do anything of this sort
- PROVIDING MATERIAL SUPPORT TO DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS (FUNDRAISING) (18 U.S.C. 2339B)
Without Elon musk or SpaceX, Ukraine would have precisely zero Starlink systems. So you really should rethink that comment.
How is that relavent?
I’ve rethough it, but the facts stayed the same.
If I had a product, I wouldn’t want it being used for war either. Know how id handle it? By not accepting millions from the Pentagon in the first place
Hoo boy, if they didn’t accept all that money, they wouldn’t have a company.
How so? Starlink predates the agreement musk made with the Pentagon to provide services in Ukraine
So if the country you lived it was being invaded, would you turn off the Internet in your country to prevent acts of war in the form of defensive operations?
Wut?
… if they somehow had control over the entire countries network?
If the country I lived in was being invaded they’d end civilization with their stockpile of 3000 or so nuclear warheads. Would I help them do that? No.
Part of me thinks that, based on his conduct over the recent years, Elon Musk is exactly so stupid that he never considered that if his company supplies gear for a military, they’re going to use it to do, like, military shit, and now he’s having a real crisis of conscience because he just never thought that his stuff would be used for, you know, war.
But on this occasion, I’m pretty sure Hanlon’s Razor won’t apply. Even if he said “Yes, I’ve been really really stupid about this and I’m a stupid little boy and you can quote me on that, put it on a shirt, make a Netflix documentary about it while you’re at it”, I’d still think this is is obviously a smokescreen and he’s being Putined one way or other.
conscience? do you think muskrat has one? maybe he does but that’s a funny thought for me
He DOES like to pretend he’s Tony Stark. Perhaps it’s part of the cosplay.
I also know for a fact that elon won’t hesitate to do something for Reason A and communicate Reason B as his motivation.
Internalizing that this sort of thing is going on 24/7 in so many parts of life makes me feel absolutely crazy.
Sometimes I wish I could be happily ignorant.
"There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate maritime support all the way to Normandie.
The obvious intent being to invade most of Nazi Europe.
If I had agreed to their request, then my company would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation."
Said the businessman, clearly not a member of the ANP
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