The reason why is because I felt that even though I thought that Stalin was a tyrant (I don’t believe this anymore, obv), he was genuinely devoted to Marxism and its principles, so the idea of him deciding to wipe out the Ukrainians out of bigotry or whatever just kinda didn’t make sense to me.
I was always kinda skeptical of it myself.
“Stalin hated Ukrainians/was a Russian chauvinist” didn’t convince me since Stalin was Georgian and had Ukrainians in his government.
The claim about trying to starve the country into submission also didn’t make sense to me because that’s not how you suppress a guerrilla movement - plus the lack of evidence for such a “resistance” didn’t help.
Not only did he have Ukrainians in his government, Ukrainians were actually over-represented at the highest levels of the Soviet government compared to most other nationalities (ironically, the other also over-represented national minority were
EstoniansLatvians).Also why is it that the same thing also happened in Kazakhstan and parts of southern Russia? Not only does the evidence for their allegations not exist, there are more logical holes in their theory than Swiss cheese. It is incredibly obvious that the whole narrative is a fabrication of anti-communist propaganda.
And when you actually look into where this idea first originated from - surprise, surprise - turns out it was the Nazis who first trotted out the story about a deliberately inflicted famine. The CIA/MI6 and their Banderite puppets just dug up and revived the Nazi lie a few decades later.
Honestly, if Kazakhstan and Georgia had a bigger Nazi movement than Ukraine, the west probably would have created their propaganda there.
Kazakhstan and Georgia did not have the historical misfortune of being in close proximity to (and partly under the domination of) Germany and the Austro-Hungarian empire.
Ukrainian identity was unironically created by the K.u.K’s to dislodge russophilla inside Galicia-Lodomeria and erase the rusyn identity. Though Georgia did become a german vassal state for a short time with the treaty of poti
Ukrainian identity was unironically created by the K.u.K’s to dislodge russophilla inside Galicia-Lodomeria and erase the rusyn identity.
Yep. Little known fact actually. A lot of people like to talk about Ukrainian history and identity with reference to various Cossack polities but that’s kind of a distraction, because the real crux of the issue is the Austro-Hungarian occupation of Galicia and subsequent radicalization of West-Ukrainian nationalists under Polish occupation in the 20s and 30s.
Though Georgia did become a german vassal state for a short time with the treaty of poti
I did not know that. TIL.
Ironic because Cossacks were the muscle that expanded Russia into Siberia and the Pontic Steppe.
I did not know that. TIL.
Yeah it was at the tale end of ww1, Germany and the Ottomans started to butt heads due to various ideas on how to split the Caucasus, especially who gets to control the baku oilfields. Ludendorff also went megalomanic and wanted to expand into central asia and divided russia into even more statelets. Didnt stop german imperial politicians from wanting to team up with the soviets for Operation Schlußstein, though.
Ironic because Cossacks were the muscle that expanded Russia into Siberia and the Pontic Steppe.
Exactly. National identity was very nebulous on the steppes, for centuries allegiance was very fluid, and there was a lot of ethnic and linguistic diversity because the steppe frontier attracted people from all around the more settled communities, including many Russians.
It’s hard to argue that such “shifting sands” can constitute a solid historical foundation for the formation of a unifying national identity unless you engage in serious historical revisionism. Which is what modern Ukrainian nationalism unfortunately does, mythologizing Cossacks as a homogenous ethnic group when that could not be further from the truth.
Ukrainian identity was unironically created by the K.u.K’s
This is bullshit, actually. Austria-Hungary gave support to one of the competing nationalist movements, but they were formed independently.
the other also over-represented national minority were Estonians
Latvians, actually.
Yes, thank you. I had them mixed up. Corrected now.
because that’s not how you suppress a guerrilla movement…
And no one should know it better than him. He was a guerrilla activist in Tsarist Russian Empire that was starving the serfs.
https://www.villagevoice.com/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/
A lib-friendly article on the topic from 1988. Shows how the myth stemmed from Nazi propaganda and their modern-day descendants, and is old enough to show that this stuff is a recent creation, not some obvious historical fact.
So this shit is both politically and culturally a myth! The very traditional definition of it.
No wonder you managed to break out of anti-communist mentality! You have critical thinking skills.
When I was a lib I didn’t know the holodomor narrative at all. First time I heard about it was at the start of the SMO. I knew shit was bad in the soviet union before ww2 but people were starving everywhere. 3 million americans died or kts to avoid slow starvation during the great depression.
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