Apparently this was an actual discourse going around.

  • PolandIsAStateOfMind
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    11 months ago

    Yes. Reminder to liberals and anarchists, socialism and international trade aren’t mutually exclusive.

    • lugal
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      11 months ago

      I’m not entirely sure how to read your comment but anarchism and international trade aren’t mutually exclusive either.

      • lemat_87
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        11 months ago

        How to build a big cargo ship under anarchism?

        • exponential_wizard@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          It’s simple:

          1: crime syndicate likes bananas

          2: crime syndicate steals a cargo ship

          3: you have now produced a cargo ship

          • lugal
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            11 months ago

            Because all syndicalists are evil. Do you really believe this statist propaganda?

        • lugal
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          11 months ago

          I don’t even see the problem. If workers collectively come to consensus about the design, what hinders them from agreeing on a schedule and working on it?

          • lemat_87
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            11 months ago

            How small, decentralized communes will handle such a big enterprise, delivery of steel, schedule of works, deliver of engine etc. without some central planning?

            • lugal
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              11 months ago

              Decentralized can still mean that there is a big system of councils. The difference is that these are bottom up organized. If there is a consensus to build something big, there will be a way to make it. Maybe a committee that’s only for this specific task and will dissolve afterwards and can be desolved by the council earlier.

              Zoe Baker made a good video about anarchism and democracy. You should check it out. It’s also about decision making in big scales within the anarchist tradition.

              • lemat_87
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                11 months ago

                Any historical serious precedence of a success of such a management system?

                • lugal
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                  11 months ago

                  The video has some. Maybe most best known is the CNT which was a network of free association. A modern example would be Rojava which is not democratic centralism but democratic confederation and therefor decentralized. Of cause, all these are suppressed by all states and therefore it is difficult to implement. Arguably, quite a lot of (but by far not all) organizations before modernity were hieracy free and some still are. the famous anthropologist and anarchist David Graeber once said that anthropologists have a affinity to anarchism because they know it works. He himself did research in Madagascar where, according to him, the state does very little in the rural areas. You should read his work or watch this interview from arround 2005.

                  • lemat_87
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                    11 months ago

                    Please excuse me but I do not like to watch videos, especially in foreign language, since my listening skills are bad.

                    all these are suppressed by all states and therefore it is difficult to implement

                    For me, it is more than obvious that from this and other reasons, anarchism is an utopia and not realistic in the real world. Thank you for the effort of presenting me the ideas, but anarchism never lifted millions from poverty as ML and never was a serious state like USSR or PRCh.

        • lugal
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          11 months ago

          The concept of mutual aid laid out by Kropotkin is very much applicable to international relations. Many anarchist organizations are internationalist, eg indigenous struggles supported the German occupation of Lützerath. True, this isn’t about the infrastructure needed but anarchism isn’t isolationist