I haven’t read a lot of these sources myself yet, but the first one at least by the Communist Party of India is worth a read.
I haven’t read a lot of these sources myself yet, but the first one at least by the Communist Party of India is worth a read.
Here are some interesting facts related to this topic:
Edit: One more thing, here is a list of terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. Note how there were no more major attacks after the vocational training program was established.
Faceless anarcho-communist twitter account is in perfect harmony with CIA but let’s not talk about that and try to be neutral here. /s
Don’t know why western people are obsessed with concern trolling for human rights across the globe when the biggest anti-worker, genocidal, racist nation state projects are right at their doorsteps. Instead of cleaning the mess at their home you get anarchist minded people being regime change dupes on the internet.
I don’t even know what to believe with this shit and I’m not an anarchist but this is the most ridiculous objection I’ve seen. “WHAT ABOUT [worse thing that anarchists also oppose]” is fucking meaningless and leaves you looking less like a good Marxist and more like you’re just looking for any reason to dunk on nerds on the internet.
Whataboutism claims are a good sign of pseudo intellectuals dog whistling to attract mob attention, usually a last resort card played by people when they never have good discussion or argument skills.
“Whataboutism” as a claim can be abused a lot to avoid criticism of the other evil that is being referenced, but there is no reason to believe that’s the case on an anarchist forum where you would be very hard pressed to find anyone who isn’t also extremely opposed to the US and other western empires. Given the demographics of a site like this, it’s also likely that most of their activism is targeted toward them as well. There is no reason that criticism of a potential evil has to wait for a larger evil to be toppled.
You’re not actually making a point here, just hurling insults.
More like I explained how concern trolling is done, by using whataboutism claims. If you want such academic discussions, first consider that you need a utopian world to do so, not the kind of world that exists today.
The current world has a lot of bias and brainwashed masses, the bias being in favour of the Western neoliberal warmongering hegemony.
Yeah my bad sorry for bringing attention to the country that has killed millions of Muslims in the middle east, destabilised countries which don’t bend to it’s will, has been rabidly anticommunist since communism has been a thing and is using the same playbook of disseminating atrocity propaganda to justify military interventions in recent history. Guess I will need to read more Marx before I can reach your level and cry whataboutism.
tf? I’ve got no problem with you also bringing attention to the US, in fact I think it’s necessary to drop into conversations like these and bring reminders like that.
My issue is the idea that unless “the mess at home” is cleaned, we can’t care about bad things happening elsewhere on smaller scales.
Well “the mess at home” is responsible for “bad things happening elsewhere on smaller scales”. In this case the NED funds the Washington based Uyghur World Congress which is the main group pushing for Uyghur secession. US funds separatist terrorists in Xinjiang, many of whom go to fight for Jihadist factions against Syria.
Meanwhile the west is pushing atrocity propaganda to manufacture consent for an escalation of conflict against China. One cannot really play both sides here. Fencesitting as an American and not opposing the US destabilising other countries, especially while taking no initiative to organise for political change, is supporting American interventionism.
That’s all I wanted to say. Sorry for the earlier reply. Lost my cool.
That’s more substantive and mostly makes sense, I just don’t agree that choosing neither empire constitutes fence-sitting…that attitude seems to me like liberal lesser evilism.
I don’t know, should I call an American who didn’t fight for America in the second world war because they didn’t want to fight for America’s imperialist project a fence-sitter because German fascism was the greater evil? Even if they were involved in anti-fascist activism at home? To me that sounds ridiculous and incredibly convenient for any force that is not literally the absolute worst on the planet…all they have to do is oppose the bigger bad.
That argument is based on the premise of false equivocation of Nazi Germany and China, a narrative in which equating deradicalisation camps with concentration camps plays a large part. China is not an expansionist state. They claim Tibet, Taiwan, which is a separate discussion but they have no intentions of expanding beyond that. They haven’t been in any war in the last fifty years. Similar argument could be used to justify Americans fighting in the Vietnam war which I am sure you know was not a justified invasion.
Altough i don’t know much about these camps of china, i still think those ‘deradicalization’ camps have more similarities to prisons compared to freedom. And i just don’t think prisons help with deradicalization.
Oh no, in that example I’m equating China now and the US in that era. Meaning a force that opposes the greater evil (Germany then, the US now) but that itself has imperial interests. (In this case maybe not literal territorial expansion, but exerting control through business…much like the US but, yknow, not as aggressive)
You forgot to cite the most important reason, being that southern Xinjiang area Tarim Basin has as much oil as whole of Saudi Arabia and supplies 30% of China’s oil needs. Destabilising and separating Xinjiang from China will result in an inevitable collapse of the country’s economy. China is on its way to overtake USA as world leader.
USA already has hold of Saudi Arabia and sanctions and forcibly controls Iran. By taking control of Tarim Basin, USA will dictate matters over most of the world’s oil.
If they had to care about Muslims, they would not genocide millions of them in Gitmo or Middle East or South East Asia over the past half century.
While I think the situation in Xinjiang is far more nuanced than most westerners see it, your unironic use of “vocational training program” puts you, quite comically, into the same camp: un-nuanced westerner spouting off.
Xinjiang is a total shit-show, and there are no good guys in the mix. None.
Being nuanced doesnt mean simply yo take the “middle point” between two statements. It means to critically examine each statement, consider the proof and the reliability of the source.
As mentioned multiple times in this thread, the main proof comes from “researchers” associated with the US government, most of whom haven’t been to Xinjiang in their entire live. The source is western media, and their reliability is very low when it comes to reporting on enemy states.
You are absolutely correct on the sources. This is why I don’t take any reports by westerners on Xinjiang at face value and, specifically, laugh at both the numbers they pull out of their asses and the more outrageous claims of what’s being done to 新疆人. (Similar to the bullshit that the 法轮大法 spouted about organ theft in Chinese hospitals. They made the mistake of naming one I could visit in person and check their claims … and not a single claim checked out. Not one. Beginning with the claim that the hospital was doing the organ theft in their basement. Peculiar, given the hospital didn’t have a basement.)
That being said, while the government here (yes, here) is nowhere near as apocalyptically comic book evil as it’s portrayed in western media or by its western opposing governments, it is by no stretch of any kind of imagination benevolent. It’s just run by people smart enough to take the long view: that understand you can’t keep your tight grip on power if people get so fed up with you that they’ll gladly suffer mass deaths as long as someone gets their hands on your throat.
And that’s where my other disbelief kicks in. “Vocational training program” sounds far too fucking wholesome for what these places likely are. I rather doubt they’re death camps. I don’t doubt they’re labour camps (insofar as American prisons using prisoners paid a pittance are labour camps; I suspect that’s the model in use). And I’m pretty certain that any “vocational training” is purely a side effect of the jobs they’re forced to perform in what is, essentially, prison. You know, the same kind of “vocational training” that prisons for profit in the USA provide.
That being said, going back to “nuance”, there’s a reason why this is happening and while not every person in the labour camps is there justly, I’d wager most of them are.