Some leftists believe in complete police abolition, but unless they’re an Anarchist or something (and not to be taken seriously) the goal is the re-foundation of a more ethical police system. Burn it down and rebuild it from the ground up, with some important stipulations:
De-militarization. Police do not need armored vehicles, or “riot gear” for that matter.
Liberalization. Police should be required to go through a values test to weed out those with fascistic tendencies.
Mandatory local recruitment. Police need to actually live in the neighborhoods they police. Just owning/renting some property there is not enough.
Dependent funding. Police should not get to keep income from fines and seizures, so they are not incentivized to give out as many fines and confiscate as much property as possible.
I would strongly recomend listening to 99% invisible Freedom House episode. This has happened before. In the past we didnt have ambulances services and cops would often throw a dying person in a paddy wagon and then take them to the hospital…hopefully i don’t have to explain why this is bad. When the first ambulance service was being organized the cops through a fucking fit about their “jobs being stolen”. There have been a number of programs trying to take off like the Denver Star program that do similar things. They take on wellfare cases. There have also been things proposed for other types of issues that cops do. A exercise is to start thinking of cops as “murder squad”. Do you need the murder squad to take care of X? Do you need them for tickets? Hell sometimes if the answer may seem yes, but the way they do things as reckless and bloody as possible has shown that it is often not effective. High speed chases down packed streets? Shoot outs they start in heavily crowded areas? A kid who shoplifted candy and surrendered and got murdered anyway? (Know one of those). We have got to deprogram ourselves in thinking we know what police do, because what we were sold is no where centered in reality.
That’s what defund the police is all about, it’s not to take money away to punish the police, that would be stupid, it’s to move that money to other departments that would be better trained to handle mental health or domestic issues
No, but it’s a silly demand to say that you can’t point out something wrong without having a solution.
In my opinion, we need to start over and rethink the whole thing. We can have people that do this job, but they don’t need to be trained the way they’re trained, or be allowed to get away with what they get away with. Other countries have much different police forces - we can start by looking there.
But we can’t just shut this discussion down. It needs to be had.
That’s a good opinion. I think I misunderstood what you meant by “throw away the bunch” - you meant the current standards of policing, not the concept of police.
It’s a good start, but educated individuals can still be criminals. Poverty is absolutely a contributing factor to crime, but not the only factor. I can see how this could lead to reduction of necessary police though.
Spending money on addressing criminogenic conditions instead of policing. It will be much less expensive in the long run, though you’ll probably still need a minimal police force. Getting there is tricky though, since there’s a significant time lag between implementing the change and reductions in crime. Although, a lot of current police budgets don’t really go towards helping anyone so maybe you could safely redirect money to long-term solutions without sacrificing short term security.
Quick responses to violence. It will never be possible to achieve a 100% reduction of crime, and as long as violent crime is possible there must be a safeguard. In the event that an individual with access to a gun or even a knife suddenly chooses violence without precedent to have them hospitalized for mental health, there must be someone there to stop them from harming others.
You got a better solution than police? Genuinely curious.
Some leftists believe in complete police abolition, but unless they’re an Anarchist or something (and not to be taken seriously) the goal is the re-foundation of a more ethical police system. Burn it down and rebuild it from the ground up, with some important stipulations:
De-militarization. Police do not need armored vehicles, or “riot gear” for that matter.
Liberalization. Police should be required to go through a values test to weed out those with fascistic tendencies.
Mandatory local recruitment. Police need to actually live in the neighborhoods they police. Just owning/renting some property there is not enough.
Dependent funding. Police should not get to keep income from fines and seizures, so they are not incentivized to give out as many fines and confiscate as much property as possible.
This is a great reply.
I would strongly recomend listening to 99% invisible Freedom House episode. This has happened before. In the past we didnt have ambulances services and cops would often throw a dying person in a paddy wagon and then take them to the hospital…hopefully i don’t have to explain why this is bad. When the first ambulance service was being organized the cops through a fucking fit about their “jobs being stolen”. There have been a number of programs trying to take off like the Denver Star program that do similar things. They take on wellfare cases. There have also been things proposed for other types of issues that cops do. A exercise is to start thinking of cops as “murder squad”. Do you need the murder squad to take care of X? Do you need them for tickets? Hell sometimes if the answer may seem yes, but the way they do things as reckless and bloody as possible has shown that it is often not effective. High speed chases down packed streets? Shoot outs they start in heavily crowded areas? A kid who shoplifted candy and surrendered and got murdered anyway? (Know one of those). We have got to deprogram ourselves in thinking we know what police do, because what we were sold is no where centered in reality.
So what you’re suggesting is a reevaluation of police duties, not their total dissolution. I would vote for that. Food for thought.
That’s what defund the police is all about, it’s not to take money away to punish the police, that would be stupid, it’s to move that money to other departments that would be better trained to handle mental health or domestic issues
No, but it’s a silly demand to say that you can’t point out something wrong without having a solution.
In my opinion, we need to start over and rethink the whole thing. We can have people that do this job, but they don’t need to be trained the way they’re trained, or be allowed to get away with what they get away with. Other countries have much different police forces - we can start by looking there.
But we can’t just shut this discussion down. It needs to be had.
That’s a good opinion. I think I misunderstood what you meant by “throw away the bunch” - you meant the current standards of policing, not the concept of police.
Federal and standardised education. Minimum three years, and a bachelor’s degree
It’s a good start, but educated individuals can still be criminals. Poverty is absolutely a contributing factor to crime, but not the only factor. I can see how this could lead to reduction of necessary police though.
Spending money on addressing criminogenic conditions instead of policing. It will be much less expensive in the long run, though you’ll probably still need a minimal police force. Getting there is tricky though, since there’s a significant time lag between implementing the change and reductions in crime. Although, a lot of current police budgets don’t really go towards helping anyone so maybe you could safely redirect money to long-term solutions without sacrificing short term security.
Solution to what? What are the irreplaceable functions of police, in your opinion?
Quick responses to violence. It will never be possible to achieve a 100% reduction of crime, and as long as violent crime is possible there must be a safeguard. In the event that an individual with access to a gun or even a knife suddenly chooses violence without precedent to have them hospitalized for mental health, there must be someone there to stop them from harming others.
why downvotes? can we not use downvoting as dislikes here? the responses to this question have been fantastic