The topic was why it took the shitlibs and Hasanabi-watching leftists (lol) a fucking tattoo to denounce Graham Platner, an Iraq veteran who did 4 trips to the war zone and then joined the Blackwater mercenary company to kill even more people.

  • amemorablename
    42·
    5 months ago

    By those same dynamics that you are referencing, we need to accept the fact that, using as a reference the current material conditions, the US military personnel are class enemies due to their settler colonial nature and other reasons as previously discussed by 6-6-6.

    By this same reasoning, civilians in the imperial core are enemies of imperialized countries. Which isn’t necessarily a misguided way of looking at it for people who live in imperialized countries and are contending with empire in their territory, but accomplishes nothing other than hair-shirt-ism (pointless guilt and self destructive obsessive with moral purity) for people living in the imperial core.

    Obviously people who go to another country and commit atrocities are a step worse from the rest of us living in the imperial core, but what about those who know capitalism is exploitative and still go about their day buying whatever product? At what point are we complicit? What about service members who don’t directly participate in war crimes, but only operate logistics (desk job, etc.)? What level of complicit is that?

    What I’m taking issue with is largely binary thinking obsession that fixates on imperial core veterans as an oversimplified group, while implying that anyone who doesn’t agree with this is a person who wants to work with and support “baby-killers.” I went over this kind of subject with another poster recently too. My point then was much the same as it is now. Consider all of the factors involved, rather than considering it as a binary thing of either work with them without reservations or treat them like pariahs who couldn’t possibly ever contribute anything positive.

    I’m not in favor of chasing after imperial core veterans as some kind of liberating saviors of the west, if that’s what some people are thinking. But the way some talk, you’d think that’s what I was saying and that it’s either that or they’re all demons.

    The idealism part is the obsession with moral personal choices. You are not doing that. You’re looking at the conditions veterans face, the incentives, and so on. The other person in question was telling people to block them, telling them to “fuck off”, etc., because they weren’t on the same page about veterans. They were further going on about it as if it is some kind of “you’re with me or against me” thing and if you even accidentally hint at any sympathy for veterans in the process of discussing their conditions, you are essentially taking the side of “baby-killers.” They further went on to drag it into general discussion in a back-biting way.

    Had they approached it as you have, I would consider it unfair of me to say the least, to have accused them of throwing a tantrum. I want to be especially clear on this because the discussion of the “soldiertariat” is a reasonable one in itself and I would have quite a problem with myself if I thought I was trying to leverage accusations of misbehavior in order to dismiss a valid point about material conditions. It’s why I tried to focus more broadly and not factor that into things when I said what I did.

    I will try to say more on your specific points later. Bit distracted at the moment and wanted to get out some thoughts on the other angle.

    • rainpizza
      4·
      5 months ago

      You brought very good topics here! I might be getting myself ahead and answer from my point of view instead of waiting. I apologize for that.

      By this same reasoning, civilians in the imperial core are enemies of imperialized countries. Which isn’t necessarily a misguided way of looking at it for people who live in imperialized countries and are contending with empire in their territory, but accomplishes nothing other than hair-shirt-ism (pointless guilt and self destructive obsessive with moral purity) for people living in the imperial core.

      Before I answer, I first need to add some context here. It is a fact that the Western imperialists provided numerous concessions to the imperial core working class as written by this Redsails article. However, now, those concessions are being actively eliminated for plenty of the imperial core working class. The loss of those concessions allow for exchanges like this one where we can both read the story of each other and create solidarity. The oppression to the imperial core working class is getting closer and closer to the ones that we feel in the Global South.

      With this in mind, my answer is that the vast numbers of the imperial core working class WERE the global south enemies during the times of great concessions but now that it is no longer the case. Solidarity is brewing to the point that stories like this one are becoming common. That solidarity among the oppressed is worth a lot in this dire times where the US goons like Marco Rubio want to paint my region with the blood of my brothers and sisters.

      Obviously people who go to another country and commit atrocities are a step worse from the rest of us living in the imperial core, but what about those who know capitalism is exploitative and still go about their day buying whatever product? At what point are we complicit? What about service members who don’t directly participate in war crimes, but only operate logistics (desk job, etc.)? What level of complicit is that?

      This topic reminds me of the story that CriticalResist shared some months ago: The Clone Economy and the Palestinian genocide. The level of complicit varies but it is there. Let me put some examples:

      • Let say that you are a US worker of the food company called Chiquita Brands. Are you aware that your salary comes from a company that pays for paramilitary orgs that kill women and children in Colombia and those paramilitaries allow the company to reap enormous profit by displacing indigenous people?
      • Let’s say that you are a normal worker from an industrial company in the US. How much of your taxes are currently funding the zionist entity? or is your company directly profiting from the genocide in Palestine?
      • Let’s say that you are working on a USAID funded NGO like the ones in Haiti and you think that you are doing good. How much is your org really helping the country instead of funding the social unrest or pinkwashing?
      • Let’s say that you are a minimum wage worker in Nestle. What will you do if you knew the crimes that Nestle has done in the Global South?

      Knowing your complicity helps to organize and protest it such as what some microsoft employess have done -> https://www.kuow.org/stories/microsoft-protester-reflects-on-campaign-to-end-company-s-ties-with-israel . For plenty of people, it is liberating to know the truth.

      This shows how normal people could unwittingly be part as a cog in the machine that is currently killing people in the Global South.

      The other person in question was telling people to block them, telling them to “fuck off”, etc., because they weren’t on the same page about veterans.

      I understand that person a lot because I too have the same degree or even higher level of repulsion for the Yankees gov’t, their war criminals and the racists within the working class. I empathize with that reaction because I will have done the same if it wasn’t for reading about the Burkinabe solidarity and the Palestinian protests. However, at this point in my life where the US have flirted with the idea of invading my country Mexico, invading my comrades in Venezuela and destroying the rest of Latin America with their funded bootlicking fascists; cultivating the solidarity for the oppressed is way more important for me. We are all in dire need of solidarity and unity. I no longer care if I find solidarity in the least expected people like Monika Ertl(daughter of nazis) or Michael Gloss(son of CIA deputy director). As long as we are able to fight the imperialist beast, I will welcome you.

      Anyway, cheers.