Hello! I’m a new communist from South Africa, and so I would like to ask this community’s thoughts on the Economic Freedom Fighter (EFF). After doing some (admittedly inadequate) investigation on them, they look… not good.
However, coming from a white, upper-middle class background, I’ve been lead to believe that the EFF are crazy extremists intent on white genocide, so my negative view of them might be due to those biases. After all. I now know that slander against communists is often completely made up or exaggerated.
On the other hand, genocidal fascists have called themselves socialist/communist in the past (e.g. Nazis, Khmer Rouge), so the EFF doesn’t get a free pass just because they use revolutionary lingo.
My sources for this post are mostly Wikipedia (which I know isn’t a great source), the EFF’s website, and googling specific questions I came up with. So anyone with better info please correct me where I’m wrong.
In favor of the EFF:
- They seem to have a good take on most issues, e.g. China, Russian war, Palestine, redistributing land etc.
Against the EFF:
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The land redistribution they propose would be based on race, rather than, say, amount of land owned. I can’t see a way https://www.npr.org/2010/03/10/124458077/south-african-officials-luxe-lifestyle-raises-doubts for examples. Furthermore, he seems to be the director of multiple companies. I’m aware that the media often make up figures about socialist leaders having absurd sums of money (e.g. saying Xi has billions of dollars in personal wealth), but these articles are from before he formed a socialist party, and was still part of the ruling ANC.where it’s more justified for a small time white farmer to lose their land rather than a farm corporation owned by a black person.
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Julius Malema, the party’s president, seems to use his positions for extensive personal gain. See https://www.news24.com/News24/Malema-misses-R3m-20100223 https://www.npr.org/2010/03/10/124458077/south-african-officials-luxe-lifestyle-raises-doubts for examples. Furthermore, he seems to be the director of multiple companies. I’m aware that the media often make up figures about socialist leaders having absurd sums of money (e.g. saying Xi has billions of dollars in personal wealth), but these articles are from before he formed a socialist party, and was still part of the ruling ANC.
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The EFF is racist (mostly against white people). They often sing the song ‘Kill the Boer’. ‘Boer’ here directly translates to farmer, but is generally understood in South Africa to refer to white Afrikaans people. Now, socialist slogans often exaggerate or are said as a joke, but I don’t think I buy that that’s the case here. Malema has, for example, also said “I’m saying to you, we’ve not called for the killing of white people, at least for now. I can’t guarantee the future.” Malema has also made anti-Indian remarks. Also, I’ve been lead to believe that the EFF only accepts black members, but looking at their membership sign-up page, that might not be the case. On the other hand, looking at their membership page, I can see where people got that impression. EDIT TO ADD: Surely, trying to unify the workers of all races is a more correct position than sowing this kind of ethnic division (which is, after all, a common fascist tactic)?
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Lastly, they just don’t seem very effective. Like, it all seems very performative. Scrolling through their website, I see a lot of statements about slogans, theatrics in parliament and rallies, but not much about actual stuff they’ve done. For example, googling ‘eff soup kitchen’ only brings up one relevant result, from 2018, about one soup kitchen they’ve helped. Looking up ‘eff homeless shelters’ brings up no relevant articles. Their website barely has any reference to any positive things they’ve done in regions where they’ve gained power. Is that normal for a socialist party that they don’t talk about doing that kind of stuff? Or is it normal for parties to not take part in that kind of stuff (maybe just directing members to other dedicated org)? Or is the EFF just useless?
Once again, I’m aware of my own biases, so I’d like someone more knowledgeable than me to chime in.
So, is the EFF worth supporting? If not, can someone recommend a better org in SA to support?
EFF is not racist against white people, EFF wishes to decolonize you settlers.
You and your people are invaders on Indigenous land and you still own the majority of farmland as a tiny minority. Small farmers can work for the state if they wish to keep farming. The EFF position in expropriation without compensation is correct in every sense, Mao would laugh if you asked him if small Japanese can keep their stolen land in China. Your petty Bourgeoisie is frankly hysterical, and it’s clear you’ve been raised by them.
There’s no fascism, you do not understand what fascism is. Your people are the ones who instituted fascism against Black people.
OP I’m sorry to say that you were raised by siege crackerism
And when Malema is saying he doesn’t know the future, he’s saying because it was not more than the recent past that your people were routinely killing Black and colored people. If your people would rather kill Black people than redistribute land for Socialism then why should we expect the EFF to be peaceful? If you accept expropriation there’s no need to kill anyone. Your media uses “race” hysteria to push y’all away from the EFF and their progressive vision for Africa. BTW “Kill the Boer” is a protest song for and by Black people when your people were killing them with the weapons of state. You’re gonna have to deal with being the spawn of fascist filth, and grow into a real thinking human for the first time in your life. It’s not your fault as an individual, the structure of Boer and British Colonialism has made your material conditions objectively fascist.
White member of the EFF criticizing racists in a Cape Town suburb (news clip featuring anti-EFF voices too).
If my words sound harsh, I’m only trying to expedite your likely collapse into Trotskyism at best, fascism in the likely, if you open your mind to reality, you can save yourself and become a real revolutionary. If you cannot first understand the forces that created you, you will never be on the side of Revolution in Africa. This is a tough pill to swallow but every settler must whether in SA, Israel, Canada, or the “USA”.
I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Link 1:
Link 2:
It’s good to know white people can be part of the EFF, thank you. What does decolonization entail, exactly? If it’s equalizing the conditions between races, I’m all for that, even if it means a reduction in my own conditions. If it entails killing people who fight back against this equality, fair enough, they had it coming. However, if it involves ‘Killing the Boer’, as in specifically targeting all of them (remember, Boer here meaning white Afrikaans people, not just farmers), then obviously I’m going to fight against that. If they don’t plan on doing the latter, then why do they focus so much on it? Like, with the example you gave of Mao, did he focus on ’ the Japanese’ or did he focus on ‘the landlords’? (That’s not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don’t know). It just seems like alienating white people, and stoking racial tensions for no good reason to me. I think the core of my disagreement here is something StalinistSteve said in his comment “with race as class”. 30 years ago, race as class was definitely a thing, enforced by the state, but now? Am I supposed to believe that a white person living on the streets is of a ‘higher class’ than a black billionaire? Granted, it’s much, much more common for black people to live on the street, and for whites to be billionaires, but the reverse situation does exist, so why use race as proxy for class at all? I understand the need for intersectionality in socialist movements, but this seems to work against that, increasing tension and giving fuel for reactionaries rather than creating solidarity. Furthermore, I want to add that the accusation of fascism doesn’t just come from whites. For example, the SACP, whose leadership is mostly black, has described them as ‘proto-fascist’. Unfortunately their site isn’t loading for me right now, but I’ll edit in a reference when it does. I agree that what whites did in the past was indeed fascist, and obviously I agree that that was bad and shouldn’t have happened, but whites having been fascist in the past doesn’t prevent black people from being fascist in the future, nor does it mean we should accept some kind of ‘retributive fascism’ (once again, I fully agree with killing those who fight against equality).
Also, do you have any thoughts against on my other concerns, like Malema’s business ties? If you do, I’d love to hear them. I really do want to believe there is a strong socialist party in SA, and that socialism can be achieved here in near future here.
Sorry if I’m coming of as contrarian, I just want to properly understand
I don’t care about Malema’s business ties, the right wingers of your country will say anything about the man that threatens their money, he gets asked about these things all the time just listen to what he has to say.
Yes Mao allied with the pro-China landlords to rid the Japanese and comprador elements first, then confronted the domestic exploiter classes when Imperialism no longer had a foothold in the realm. This is why if wealthy Zulus are willing to support the EFF and the South African workers against interference from Europe, US, and Japan, they can receive preferential treatment compared to those wealthy people working to sabotage South Africans for personal gain (compradors), in the Chinese revolution, bourgs that allied with Communists retained democratic privileges, but unlike workers and peasants, for Bourgs they could be revoked.
Regardless, the EFF does not discriminate in their land nationalization program:
There’s no need to waste bullets on Boers who don’t pick up arms against the people. Kill the Boer wouldn’t be a rallying cry for Black people if the history of ethnic cleansing of the Indigenous didn’t occur, white South Africans need to relax and understand they created the situation they are in, and should follow along peacefully in the road away from Imperialism.
Btw I don’t care for this poor settler farmer schtick. Farmers are not poor because they are an oppressed class, some farmers are poor because they have to speculate against the market to hit the most favorable prices, and necessarily some of them can’t sell at the right margins. They are effectively day trading stock holders looking for margins except their stocks can rot or be eaten by rats, and they cost a lot of labor to move around. Poor farmers can join the majority of poor people that are Black and follow them into re-education and re-skilling for new jobs, or just follow the state’s plans and be normal about it.
I guess the last thing to talk about is the SACP, who fucking sucks and is just as Revisionist as the CPUSA et al. SACP would rather ally with black and white billionaires than take a principled stance on Decolonization (land reform, detaching from Imperialism, resolving internal national/“race”/“ethnic” disparities).
However, coming from a white, upper-middle class background
The EFF is racist (mostly against white people).
My brother in christ, u just racist. White people are in the EFF and are the most advanced settler communists there because they are by necessity class suicidal and subjegate themselves to the indigenous black population who has always stewarted the land before settlers came and brought capitalism. Decolonizing is a necessity and with race as class even in a fully marxist framework we can see how expropriation of land based on race is a necessity.
I’ll keep it short because kaffe made a great post there, but this is an idealogical failure on your part. As with any settler colonial state the vanguard is always going to come from those not allowed within the settler identity and will always be some form of decolonization. I will have one more note
Surely, trying to unify the workers of all races is a more correct position than sowing this kind of ethnic division (which is, after all, a common fascist tactic)?
I generally find the best definition of fascism to mean colonialism turned inwards, so the jews being subjected to the violence normally reserved for africans, or the circumstances that settlers pose on the indigenous or enslaved in their settler colonies. The EFF recognizes this and wants to fix this, society is already drawn against racial lines with black people receiving fascism while white people live in luxury at their expense. To suggest they are the fascists in turn, especially as a white person, well… the settler communist isn’t far from the white supremacist tree. Hope the tough love helps, if not rest assured the EFF will see us a socialist south africa in our lifetimes.
this is an idealogical failure on your part
Sorry about that, I’ve only been exposed to this kind of theory for a couple of months so far. That’s why I asked on here, to get a better understanding 😅. I hope you don’t mind if I ask a few more questions. Like I said to Kaffe, I’m not trying to be contrarian, just trying to understand.
with race as class
I’ll just copy what I said to Kaffe: 30 years ago, race as class was definitely a thing, enforced by the state, but now? Am I supposed to believe that a white person living on the streets is of a ‘higher class’ than a black billionaire? Granted, it’s much, much more common for black people to live on the street, and for whites to be billionaires, but the reverse situation does exist, so why use race as proxy for class at all? I understand the need for intersectionality in socialist movements, but this seems to work against that, increasing tension and giving fuel for reactionaries rather than creating solidarity.
I generally find the best definition of fascism to mean colonialism turned inwards
I’ve seen a lot of definitions of fascism, including this one, and I don’t think I agree with this one. It seems to imply that only colonial countries can be fascist. Would Pinochet’s Chile, or South Korea during the sixties and seventies not count as fascist then? These fascists were supported by the US, but it was still Chileans or South Koreans in the end doing the actual oppressing. Being oppressed doesn’t prevent someone from being a reactionary or a fascist, after all. That’s why I also asked about things like anti-Indian racism, and Malema’s business ties
rest assured the EFF will see us a socialist south africa in our lifetimes.
I genuinely do want to believe this, I hope you understand my concerns
Race as class is important because of the systems that kept these seperations as rigid as they were may not exist anymore, but the capitalists were never actually going to end apartheid. As was the case in America, the ending of slavery was because otherwise black people would flip the countty on its head otherwise, same with the “end” of jim crow, remove the most obvious forms of discrimination, pay off a few black people to become white supremacists, and say that racism is over. We need to remember race is a construct formed out of and to reinforce the white supremacist system, a black billionaire has a white mind and the enemy stays the same – capitalist colonialism and its super structure of white supremacy.
With the example of Pinochet’s Chile and South Korea’s fascism, this is out of their neo-colonial status and functions as fascism because it is the open violence of colonialism and complete subjegation to capitalism and the white supremacist world order. Generally in the 21st century colonialism has progressed to neo-colonialism, indoctrinating a subsect of the population into anti-communist idealogy and having them enact fascism on the population as to clean imperialism’s hand of the situation. But at the end of the day, the driving force is always capital and particularly US imperialist capital and the white supremacist order it reinforces, it is still US fascism to blame as the situation simply would not have occured otherwise.
The EFF just doesn’t fit any definition of fascism I can think of. They certainly don’t represent corporations looking to take full control of the state (Mussolini’s “Fascism might be better called corporatism”). They aren’t funded by US imperialism or any other substancial anti-communist force, nor do they partake in anti-communism. They don’t want to use white people as a permanent underclass of laborers and displace them from their native lands (nor could they even do these if they wanted), and they’d still deserve support even if they decided to take a more radical approach.
Decolonization often gets called fascist by the white people it threatens, but lets stop for a moment and look at Palestine and really ask ourselves – is there any other choice? Israelis live their lives in a relative comfort on the backs of Palestinians, and so can any Israeli “working class” really have a revolutionary class conciousness without being class suicidal? Can a revolutionary idealogy be anything but removing this explotative relationship and effectively decolonizing the lands?
Maybe if one considers during WWII when the Brits and the USAmericans used the term “German” synonymous with Nazi then it may help you get over the apparent linguistic hangup? White/Boer in this context refers to the settler/coloniser and the system that upholds it. I would maybe consider reading Frantz Fanon’s “Black Skin, White Masks” and Losurdo’s “Class Struggles” - the latter explores a better understanding of class beyond “economic”; you will have to become a class traitor like a lot of MLs.
You can watch this episode of the EFF podcast which may begin to address some of your questions about their point of view with regard to white settlers and land expropriation. The interviewee is a white settler who was previously in the EFF.
In addition, I recommend that you begin studying African colonization and liberation struggle history and particularly reading the works of African revolutionaries and Marxists. How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney is one place you could start, it will help guide you in seeing colonialism through the lens of dialectical materialism. I also second the recommendation of reading Fanon’s Black Skin, White Masks. And I recommend Aime Cesaire’s Discourse on Colonialism.
Don’t think of colonization as a thing of the past but as an ongoing process which is upheld and entrenched daily and likewise fought against daily. You seem to be thinking primarily in terms of your local proletariat vs. bourgeoisie and thinking mainly about the class struggle within your country alone, but you should expand your understanding. Neocolonialism is a vital tool of the imperial core in maintaining its dominance (check out these interviews: Capitalism Cannot Exist without Imperialism and Why Capitalism Needs Imperialism To Drain Wealth From the Global South). National liberation/decolonization struggle is an imperative and it is going to continue regardless of how you or settler-dominated parties feel about it.
I understand having doubt/caution around subjects with which you are unfamiliar. Your desire to avoid accidentally supporting a racist/fascist group is understandable. But what is not so obvious to you but observable to us replying to you, is that these worries of yours are coming more from hangups due to your background + lack of knowledge more than an actual risk of the EFF being a racist/fascist org. It’s good you acknowledge your bias, but be aware that, like most people, you have more biases than you currently realize. As someone mentioned, you’ve received “tough love” in the replies. I agree with these responses you’ve received and I hope you continue to learn.
I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Link 1:
Link 2:
Link 3:
