It’s a lady talking about raising her three sons without smartphones until 16 and without social media until 18. Do kids in America commonly end up having personal smartphones before 16? She talks about how one of her sons had to scan a QR code for schoolwork. He is some age younger than 16 so I find that a bit insane.

  • pastalicious [he/him, undecided]@hexbear.net
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    2 months ago

    Spent a few minutes trying to vet this substack and didn’t find any red flags but I get some sketchy vibes nonetheless.

    But yeah kids mostly have phones before 16. Hell toddlers usually have tablets so that YouTube for kids can babysit while mom prepares dinner. It’s a problem.

  • loathesome dongeaterOPA
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    2 months ago

    Wanted to post some of my thoughts and fears in the post body but couldn’t get my head straight so I am just gonna leave them as a comment.

    To be honest, I completely sympathise with this woman not wanting to give young children their own smartphones. I started using social media when Facebook first began. I still remember very vividly how I would post and comment there desperately seeking validation from my peers. That was waaay back. I haven’t used it in a decade but from what I understand Facebook has gotten much worse since then. I suppose there is no reason to believe that all other social media platforms haven’t gotten worse as well.

    It is a structural problem (crapitalism) too. Psychopaths like Mark Zuckerberg (using him as a proxy here) have free reign to do whatever it is they do to children with almost no regulations or oversight. Tech news media ritualistically publish an article every month or so decrying how online culture is giving children depression or anxiety or some other problem yet nothing comes of it. I get a bit sentimental about this so I don’t wanna make it sound like I think I am being objective. But graduates in marketing are hard at work to unearth new dark patterns everyday and regulations IMO are at least 20 years behind.

    At the same time, I think this woman kinda oversimplifies her situation a bit. My main problem with her writing is that she kinda makes it look like the idylls of a digital minimalist life logically follow from smartphone abstention. If smartphone abstention is a band-aid solution to big tech’s encroachment, then I think it is a starting point rather than a silver bullet. There is still a lot of quality parenting to do after that. Maybe this is obvious and I am just missing it. But I feel like an article like this could pander to people who irrationally hate technology, understandably but for the wrong reasons.

    Most pressing issue for me is that if I were a parent, I would not know how to impose this kind of restriction on my child. I am watching my nephew being raised and his caretakers are blissfully ignorance of their own addiction to screens and the implications of it. Sometimes I see the child hypnotised by a cartoon being played on TV while the caretaker is browsing Instagram or something similar on their phone. (This is where the aforementioned sentimentality comes from. I have a lot of other anecdotes but it’s better to not get into them.) I feel like this kind of proliferation of screen addiction is somewhat commonplace. Assuming that the child’s peers possess phones, I wouldn’t know how to explain to them why I don’t want them to have one. If I tried they would guaranteed not understand or agree. The author talks about this in the article but she just brushes over the topic. I don’t know what the experience of the child would be like being the odd one with no phones. Phones are pretty much an extension of the self these days.

    Sorry for the dump but I needed an outlet. Thanks.

    • rayne [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      2 months ago

      Healthy limitations seem to work better with screens and social media. Cell phones are powerful tools but also a door to a lot of addictive behavior.

      In fact, I think I’m going to turn mine off and get some rest.

      • loathesome dongeaterOPA
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        2 months ago

        The problem, at least as I see it and I would love corrections and criticisms, is that children just cannot fathom the depravity of tech companies that benefit from their reliance on screen time.

        I hope you don’t get notified about this reply and have a good rest.

        • rayne [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          2 months ago

          I can only speak from my own experience raising a now teenager.

          Abstinence tends to cause rebellion, especially when the child’s peers are all doing it. Healthy limitations set the stage for guidance.

          It’s like the same thing with drugs, I want my kid to wait until he’s an adult until he experiments with drugs. I explain to him that his brain is still growing. But… that if he does have questions or if he ever needs a ride because him and his friends got drunk at a party, that I’m here, and I won’t be mad.

          With electronics, I point out when games are causing addictive cycles. Try to help him see the difference between a game that’s actually fun and creative and one that’s just targeting his dopamine (we use different language, like excitement vs. enjoyment, or a game that feels grindy vs. actually being interesting). And we talk about microtransactions and other predatory behavior that’s basically gambling. And thankfully, he’s not caught up on FB, though he does use tiktok.

          If I had him full-time, I would set boundaries around time. Encourage him to go touch grass more. And not be on social media before bed or first thing in the morning. Stuff like that.

          Him not having a cell phone would mean I couldn’t text him as easily and share things with him (which is nice as we don’t see each other as often as I would like). And that he would be cut off from texting his friends. Or contacting me or his mom if he ever was at a party, and needed a ride because he didn’t feel safe.

          All of that said, I would love regulations on some of this stuff. The way tech companies prey on children (and adults) is disgusting.

          And… I took a break from my phone, mostly because of tendonitis. Been awake and cleaning :) Now I’m typing and on my computer, so my wrists are still getting a nice rest.

  • RyanGosling [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    2 months ago

    I am on the train of “I don’t want my children to be ostracized for not appearing normal,” so I’d likely get some child locked Android for them at an early age. Chatting with friends is whatever, but I would restrict social media use. Obviously they can always go behind your back, but I’m hoping I can make it uncool enough for them to avoid that.