The enshitification of Gnome continues until it be it’s own little isolated thing and previous gnome code will have to be forked to make progress that users actually want.
That will probably go for gnome apps eventually. The Mint guys might have to rewrite all the bloody apps to work with gnome 3…🤦
How about when the theming is baked in and impossible to change?
Enshittification doesn’t have to be monetary. It’s about doing things that go against the interests of the user.
Unfortunately Gnome has taken to heart St. Exupery’s law (“perfection is not when there’s nothing left to add, but when there’s nothing left to take away”) but have forgotten that it was coined in an era of mechanical devices and there’s more than one aspect to software. Applying it to functionality is very different from applying it to features and customization. The latter ends up making software feel bland and oppressive.
How about when the theming is baked in and impossible to change?
It’s not impossible to change, people alter it all the time. E.g. with Gradience. Either way, it still wouldn’t make it enshitification.
Enshitification != when an app from an open source project has a theme that’s harder to change.
Unfortunately Gnome has taken to heart St. Exupery’s law
Yawn. The usual “hur dur what’s Gnome removed this time???” line that doesn’t even make any sense. Go look at changelogs for Gnome updates and you’ll see that meme is bullshit. Stuff was removed in the Gnome 3 migration, what 13 or 14 years ago? It’s time to move on.
And again, still nothing to do with enshitification even if Gnome were trimming features out all the time, which they aren’t.
You people really need to learn what enshitification means instead of just latching onto the newest buzzword and applying it to everything. It’s like when companies call everything AI now lol
How about when the theming is baked in and impossible to change?
It can still be changed, it’s just a harder to do so.
It’s about doing things that go against the interests of the user.
This conveniently ignores that app developers are also users of ui frameworks, and they would like a well defined platform to test for, rather than an endless stream of distros each with its own theme that could break their app.
No. It’s deliberately breaking backwards compatibility to force other projects that use that code to either look bland like Gnome or stop making their DE’s.
No, it’s theming their own project to look however they want it to.
bland like Gnome
Gnome looks amazing. It’s objectively the most consistent and polished DE out there, and IMO the best looking one.
or stop making their DE’s.
Lmao is this what you think? There’s a secret cabal of Gnome developers who think that by making the Libadwaita theme and using it in their own Gnome apps, it will kill other DEs? Can you actually hear yourself?
That conspiracy theory doesn’t even make sense. Care to tell us your opinions on the moon landing? I imagine they’ll be quite funny.
Who said anything about a conspiracy? I’m just saying they may be acting selfishly and it couldn’t hurt to speak to other parties who they know use their code, to discuss how it will impact them.
It’s deliberately breaking backwards compatibility to force other projects that use that code to either look bland like Gnome or stop making their DE’s.
You’re asserting that the Gnome team is secretly working together (i.e. conspiring) with the explicit aim of enforcing DEs to look like Gnome (idk how they could force that but whatever), or to stop making their DEs altogether (similarly, I can’t see the logic there. Unless you believe that only Gnome devs are skilled enough to make Linux programs and other DEs just have to take what Gnome makes. But that’s an absurd suggestion).
It’s not a conspiracy. All I was saying is that by breaking backwards compatibility downstream either has to comply or find another way.
As another commentor has mentioned, gnome did actually inform downstream a good while back but downstream did not engage, so gnome obviously proceeded with their own project how they saw fit. Which is the right way of course.
Downstream should have tried to engage and perhaps found a good work around but sadly didn’t.
Didn’t that happen a long time ago which is how we got MATE?
I no longer follow developments in GTK based DEs much because nowadays KDE Plasma is so clearly the best choice for me, but it has long been my impression that GNOME just wants to be its own thing that doesn’t really care about anyone not using GNOME. This is probably because the main role of GNOME is to be the DE for installations commercially supported by Canonical, Red Hat, etc.
The enshitification of Gnome continues until it be it’s own little isolated thing and previous gnome code will have to be forked to make progress that users actually want.
That will probably go for gnome apps eventually. The Mint guys might have to rewrite all the bloody apps to work with gnome 3…🤦
Enshitification != when a DE has some theming for its apps I don’t like.
“Enshitification” must be the most misused buzzword in the tech space right now. That or every algorithm being “AI” now.
How about when the theming is baked in and impossible to change?
Enshittification doesn’t have to be monetary. It’s about doing things that go against the interests of the user.
Unfortunately Gnome has taken to heart St. Exupery’s law (“perfection is not when there’s nothing left to add, but when there’s nothing left to take away”) but have forgotten that it was coined in an era of mechanical devices and there’s more than one aspect to software. Applying it to functionality is very different from applying it to features and customization. The latter ends up making software feel bland and oppressive.
It’s not impossible to change, people alter it all the time. E.g. with Gradience. Either way, it still wouldn’t make it enshitification.
Enshitification != when an app from an open source project has a theme that’s harder to change.
Yawn. The usual “hur dur what’s Gnome removed this time???” line that doesn’t even make any sense. Go look at changelogs for Gnome updates and you’ll see that meme is bullshit. Stuff was removed in the Gnome 3 migration, what 13 or 14 years ago? It’s time to move on.
And again, still nothing to do with enshitification even if Gnome were trimming features out all the time, which they aren’t.
You people really need to learn what enshitification means instead of just latching onto the newest buzzword and applying it to everything. It’s like when companies call everything AI now lol
the definition of enshittification is absolutely about money, it doesn’t just mean “making things worse”
It can still be changed, it’s just a harder to do so.
This conveniently ignores that app developers are also users of ui frameworks, and they would like a well defined platform to test for, rather than an endless stream of distros each with its own theme that could break their app.
No. It’s deliberately breaking backwards compatibility to force other projects that use that code to either look bland like Gnome or stop making their DE’s.
That’s bad for FLOSS and Linux users
No, it’s theming their own project to look however they want it to.
Gnome looks amazing. It’s objectively the most consistent and polished DE out there, and IMO the best looking one.
Lmao is this what you think? There’s a secret cabal of Gnome developers who think that by making the Libadwaita theme and using it in their own Gnome apps, it will kill other DEs? Can you actually hear yourself?
That conspiracy theory doesn’t even make sense. Care to tell us your opinions on the moon landing? I imagine they’ll be quite funny.
Who said anything about a conspiracy? I’m just saying they may be acting selfishly and it couldn’t hurt to speak to other parties who they know use their code, to discuss how it will impact them.
You did. To quote your assertion:
You’re asserting that the Gnome team is secretly working together (i.e. conspiring) with the explicit aim of enforcing DEs to look like Gnome (idk how they could force that but whatever), or to stop making their DEs altogether (similarly, I can’t see the logic there. Unless you believe that only Gnome devs are skilled enough to make Linux programs and other DEs just have to take what Gnome makes. But that’s an absurd suggestion).
It’s not a conspiracy. All I was saying is that by breaking backwards compatibility downstream either has to comply or find another way.
As another commentor has mentioned, gnome did actually inform downstream a good while back but downstream did not engage, so gnome obviously proceeded with their own project how they saw fit. Which is the right way of course.
Downstream should have tried to engage and perhaps found a good work around but sadly didn’t.
So they’ll have to work it out now by themselves.
Didn’t that happen a long time ago which is how we got MATE?
I no longer follow developments in GTK based DEs much because nowadays KDE Plasma is so clearly the best choice for me, but it has long been my impression that GNOME just wants to be its own thing that doesn’t really care about anyone not using GNOME. This is probably because the main role of GNOME is to be the DE for installations commercially supported by Canonical, Red Hat, etc.
From what others have replied, this seems to be an old issue and it seems Gnome was actually in the right.
I wasn’t aware of that history. Here’s the reply that helped straighten it out: https://lemmy.world/comment/9847230