I’m thinking about anti capitalist investments.
Traditionally, it has been common to talk about investment in the sense of “generating” wealth. The economy is going to grow, therefore it is good to invest your money in mutual funds or diverse portfolios.
Traditional investment is orwellian for buying the rights to workers labor. Therefore, by principle I shouldn’t invest in the traditional sense.
But just having money just laying around in the bank isn’t very clever either as inflation will devalue it. So I’m thinking about anti capitalist investments.
Investments in non-profits
My idea of investment doesn’t just encompass how to increase my personal wealth, but also the wealth of the planet, wealth of human beings and wealth of animals. This means that I consider a donation an investment. I could view such investments as giving much higher return than even the most ethical company.
By donating, I’m also incentivizing myself to pay more attention to these organizations.
Investment in personal property
I could invest in possessions that I predict is going to be very useful to fight capitalism. I could buy tools to create independence from big tech. Or items that improve my mental health or helps to connect with other people.
Investment in personal sector
I could work less in order to invest in my personal wealth and working for non-profit sector.
Investment in independence from work
Another investment type is one to reduce loans and expenditure to as close as zero. This would reduce the corporate and state workforce. It would also free up your time to do what you want to do. Perhaps start a non-profit or spend your time helping out established ones.
What are your thoughts on this?
I think for practical reasons it also depends on how much we are talking about. If you are thinking about something in the millions, then yes, I feel it would be utterly important to be very considerate regarding how you can invest ethically.
However, if we are just talking about 90% of the population trying to put money aside, then frankly I don’t think we should put an ethical burden on the investment decision. These amounts won’t change anything in terms of how ethical the economy is and I believe it is unfair to make it harder for people for no reason, when these people are already struggling in ways.
So I would say that 90% of people should invest where it makes the most sense for them in terms of time available to research and return on investment.
The economy is not a democracy. We can’t vote ourselves out of this with our wallet.
Investing money in anything is capitalist, to my mind - it’s in the name.
An anti-capitalist has an aversion to money, and would certainly not want to be making more of it.
I guess an anti-capitalist would invest time, skills, muscle, generosity into projects they would deem worthy - probably social projects.
At a push, an anti-capitalist might be interested in worker-ownership / Mutuals.
I agree in principal, but as we currently do need money for survival, I think investing in ethical organizations would be a good thing. It doesn’t have to be about becoming a Wall street shark, but maybe surviving and contributing to socially responsible organizations.
Of course you’re right, but I abhor the fact that we need money for survival.
I know :( especially how much just for necessities: housing and food
Yeah.
What is the difference between Mutual Business Model and cooperatives?
I’m no expert, but I would think that a co-operative could potentially have a wider community of interested parties, whereas a mutual would be the workforce alone.
I think Mutual is the more generic name for a co-op in the UK. According to this page for a mutual to be a co-op it must formally accept and adhere to the seven “principles of cooperation”.
What about donating to open source software? Seems to me like that ticks all the appropriate boxes.
Coincidentally, I’m working on a website right now that lets you answer a few questions about your values and it spits out a random FOSS project meeting all your checkboxes that you can donate to in the end.
Definitely, I invest in (donate to) Framasoft, Small Tech Foundation and want to increase my portfolio.
Investing, to me, implies that a person expects a return on the investment - you put money in, and you get more money back, whether that’s a bank account, or stocks and shares, etc…
Whereas donating to a cause means that you’re not expecting a financial return. I guess the “investment” there is to the enrichment of everyone.
Donating isn’t simply about burning up your money. You expect something in return. For example perhaps you invest in Framasoft with the expected return of having a more healthy internet ecosystem.
… which, as I said, enriches everyone… but it isn’t a monetary return on investment
So it is an investment in the community. The community gains a non-monetary return on investment.
:) Of course. Investment though - to my mind at least - is about money given with the intent that, after a period of time, you get more of it back. A donation, on the other hand, has no regard for a monetary return.
Our language reflects our world view.
Donations implies that we are throwing money into an altruistic well to cleanse our soul. The person donating are elevated in status for their altruism regardless of how little the project progressed towards it’s vision.
Investments implies that there are something on stake. That money can be invested poorly. That we can’t simply just donate to anything and expect the world to improve. It requires justification from the investor. We can measure whether an investment was good or not. With investments there is no honor, because you do it for your self interests. Self interests such as preventing climate disaster, ending imperialism or distributing digital power.
I guess there are a number of reasons why people choose to donate to something*:
- In appreciation of a service having been, or being offered; they contribute in gratitude.
- In the hope that by contributing that they can ensure that the thing* continues, and maybe
- They hope that the thing* will be improved.
Perhaps it improves a person’s well-being to donate - I have no issue with that, particularly.
And, you’re right: with an investment people are putting resources at stake, and sometimes that gives them the power to assert a degree of control. A donation, on the other hand, is a gift: they have to trust that the party they’re donating to will use the resources wisely.
- the “thing” could be another person - I don’t mean any disrespect.
Whenever I have additional money that I don’t need I just invest it in things that can be useful to other people (as a donation) but, more than wasting just money I try to enlarge its use working more to make the thing more useful.
Example: I buy a 80 € MiniPC and tweak it to make it a PC useful for SysAdmin studies at all.
In summary, invest for other people but trying to maximize utility with less resources.
I think it is broadly ok if your investment doesn’t exploit others.
This could be investing in something a community can share like:
- FOSS projects
- Community gardens
- Food banks
- Non profit orgs
However, like other people have said it is practical to invest in some things for yourself:
- an emergency fund
- Land you can live on (to protect against unpredictable rents)
- even some stock and cryptocurrency is acceptable to some degree (imo) as in many countries large savings are required for old age.
Being anti-capitalist isn’t a great goal in this case since it brings no benefit to anyone. Instead, I would reframe it as how can you make your investments be ethical. There are definitely ways to do that, like targeting investments towards companies that seek a higher purpose than just profit. Alternatively, becoming a shareholder in a company gives you some amount of control over that company. Some shareholders have used that to press companies into more ethical decisions, like forcing Big Oil to address climate issues by branching out into renewables by gaining seats on their board of directors.
This question wasn’t targeted towards people who support capitalism. No offense.
real estate, it’s what china has been doing for a while
Real estate investing is not anti-capitalist. The commodification of housing is fundamentally against the tenents of socialism.
couldn’t agree more.
And real estate in China is pretty messed up at the moment (see: Evergrande). A bunch of people saved up for a home, gave their money to Evergrande to get a home built in the future, and now may never see that home or their money.
that sounds like western propaganda /s
