was python ever irrelevant?
Perhaps as the new hotness to web devs, but Python was a mainstay in science way before Django.
For about the first five years of its life, it was eclipsed by Perl. That’s about it. I don’t think anything will ever unseat Python as too many people’s first and last language.
Python is the language of choice for most test automation
Depends entirely what tests you’re automating. Java codebase? Probably Java tests too. Anything web? Tests will be JS too, etc.
Web testing is also done in python. Selenium has support in all major Python test frameworks. I’ve done SE-only tests in Robot, hybrid SE/Python using BDD with Behave, etc.
Unless I’m testing a language-specific API, I’m probably going to use Python…
I’m guessing that’s because you’re a python developer though. If you’re a frontend developer who knows JS then why wouldn’t you use that for your tests? (Apart from the fact that JS is horrible, but you’ve already accepted that suffering by becoming a web dev)
I’m a test automation developer, I’m not necessarily bound by the platform that the application is written in unless I’m writing white-box tests.
Maybe when 3.0 was new and created all sorts of incompatibilities with 2.x
Nah, Python 2.7 got way more support than it ever deserved because people just refused to switch to 3. Hell, people were starting new python projects on 2 after 3 came out.
Yesterday I would have argued that with the rails framework Ruby is a great way to rapidly develop a scalable application. Today I started having an intermittent failure in one of my API instances and when searching about it the only thing I could find was one obscure blogpost that boiled down to “yeah sometimes Ruby Ave active record just screws up the character set off a string” exact same string, different results. Excuse me Ruby? How the fuck can you sometimes screw up a character set? There should be no sometimes to any thing here.
I like Ruby most of the time, but honestly, I’m not surprised at “sometimes” behavior from the language created by someone who, when asked for the formal definition of something in the language, said he’s “not really a formal kind of guy.”
Haven’t Spring Boot in Kotlin with jib and cloud integration caught upto this in terms of development speed?
I spent a few years with Ruby, and my experience is that Ruby and Rails couldn’t be more different in terms of programming approach, philosophy, and nature. I don’t trust Rails fully, but I do trust Ruby.
Mastodon is written in Ruby. Nowhere near as big as Facebook or the ML field, but hey, it’s important to a couple of us at least :)
and therefore scales terribly ;;
It probably wasn’t a big deal when it was a niche project until Twitter imploded. Then all the public instances got overloaded with new users and the limits became obvious.
A better design is Lemmy which is written in Rust so it has far more scalability. It’s compiled and because it’s tokio / actix based, it can also do a lot more stuff asynchronously so it’s not spawning thousands of threads to cope with concurrent requests.
@pkill Yeah seems that way, judging by their scaling up documentation: https://docs.joinmastodon.org/admin/scaling/
Although hey, it all depends on a whole bunch of stuff written in super optimised (and kinda scary) C !
Those docs look pretty easy to scale mastodon. What am i missing?
@towerful I mainly program in Go, so when I see all that extra software I notice how much easier it is when I get to just rely on the Go runtime. It does a lot of the heavy lifting done here, but the resulting code is not as clean. Actually just today I read through Mastodon’s code to track down a bug in my in-progress ActivityPub service (in Go) and found the Ruby really easy to navigate!
Hi there! Your text contains links to other Lemmy communities, here are correct links for Lemmy users: !programming@programming.dev
Mastodon is written in Ruby. Nowhere near as big as Facebook or the ML field yet
FTFY ;)
As a Rails engineer with 14 years experience, I can say the place that should be in the 3rd panel is Shopify. They employ so many ruby and rails core committers and directly fund a good many rails gems, and ruby community infrastructure it’s insane. They’re also directly funding the development of things like the YJIT and speed enhancements to MRI itself.
Then there’s all the other places I know or worked at built on Ruby where my other long tenured ruby friends work.
- Gusto
- Airbnb
- Clearbit
- Stripe
- Github
- Gitlab
- Bold Penguin
Ruby was recommended to me by my comparative programming languages professor. I haven’t picked it up, but there were memes that this professor was so good at programming he was secretly built by the university in C++ to teach students how to write better code.
It’s worth learning Ruby to understand some of the tricks you can do in programming languages.
Did your prof also recommend others like Lisp?
Aha asks for Ruby on rails experience in their job listings, so they must be using it as well
Basecamp
One of the most known programming tool is built on Ruby, Github.
GitLab also uses Ruby on Rails
So I know it’s supposed to be an arm, but those language be dummy thicc
Should be wordpress and not Facebook for php. Which still makes up the majority of websites.
And Wordpress is a horrible example of PHP code
Laravel is a completely better PHP project
Couldn’t agree more. Wordpress and the damn loop. Horrid example of how to do something. But it still makes up the majority of the internet…
Hey Ruby debs, lookup Elixir. It’s supposedly similar syntax but run on the Erlang VM instead. Lots of cool companies use it, and a great community. 🤗
I’ve written a non-trivial amount of Elixir. It’s nice, but I wouldn’t say it’s like Ruby. It’s more heavily functional, and it wants you to work with data in an immutable way. If you’re coming from a language that doesn’t force immutability, then you’ll be miserable until you get your head around how to work that way.
I really like it, though. Especially now that it’s getting optional typing.
Elixir is an awesome language. It takes some getting used to as it’s meant to be more functional like Haskell, but it plays really nicely with big parallel workloads and is super clean to write
Crystal lang is also pretty cool looking. It seems to be going for what Nim is doing, making Ruby as fast as C.
Don’t learn Elixir to replace Ruby. Learn it to enjoy OTP and BEAM.
I would love to join a cool company that’s willing to accept a dev that can transition fast. However, most of Elixir job listings I find are gambling or crypto. And I ain’t gonna touch those.
@nifty I have nothing against Ruby and think it’s a nice flexible language. At the peak of RoR though, all the asshats were all over Ruby.
My problem with Ruby wasn’t even RoR, it was with the way the asshats valued
creativity“cleverness” which seemed to mean writing code in the most cryptic ways possible. These folks took what should be an expressive language and wrote scripts that rivaled Perl’s worst “read once and never again” scripts.I never did Rails but I used Ruby for many personal projects in the 2000s.
When showing stuff to my coworkers or friends, I often joked how I tried to make my code look like it was already gzipped.
This wasn’t “creativity over code” so much as it was the tail end of y2k and all the greybeards were canned so none could teach the shiny whiz kid how to code like an adult.
Without the linus-like code review sessions, they never learned why and how to improve.
Now their kludge-bro mentality has raised a whole new generation.
And that’s why people don’t know not to flatpak or npm themselves into a solarwinds sploit.
RoR is too much magic for me. Getting started with any new code base is such a pain that I never want to do again. As a manager, I’ll avoid any job post that mentions Ruby. I have maintained projects written in Delphi, Centura, Java, C#, PHP and none of them even come close to the pain of RoR. Java and C# are notorious for ceremonial interfaces but that’s nothing compared to trying to figure out RoR automagics.
There is a lot of magic in Java. Try Spring Boot for example, and things magically connect together with annotations, or somehow methods get injected onto interface on the fly, or an http interface maps onto a function with parameters because the runtime is doing it. This is most evident when you set a break point in some class and there might be 4 or 5 mystery functions it passed through between it and where you thought it was calling from. Sl4j, Lombok, Hibernate are doing the same kind of thing.
I had to learn Fortran for my thesis because it’s the industry standard in particle physics
Physics changes with retirements. FORTRAN should received it’s gold watch and shown the door about 20 years ago now.
There’s no distinct generations of either physicists or codes that all retire at the same time
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How long ago? ROOT (and other frameworks like GEANT) using C++ has been the standard for over 15 years, but probably longer. I think my advisor was of the last generation that had to write in Fortran.
Currently lmao. I’m using those tools as well but some specific event generators I’m using are in Fortran still
thank you for your service 🫡
the last generation to write FORTRAN
runs to look out window
My God is the sun turning into a red giant?!
Oh no, whew, that’s a relief! Guess the FORTRAN programmers will be relevant for a little longer too then.
(As a .NET dev, I wish some languages (or versions of languages) would die but i really think once code has been written it never goes away!)
[COBOL has entered the chat.]
Capitalism will never let a programming language die, if it’s still less expensive than an alternative.
A lot of COBOL programs are still running to this day.
I would say wordpress over Facebook for php
Yeah…
Facebook hasn’t used PHP for a long time. They use Hack which started as a language similar to PHP, but it’s very different now - it’s strongly-typed and has a bunch of advanced features, like the ability to annotate functions as pure (no side effects), which gets enforced by the type checker.
Enterprise will keep the withered husk of Java EE crawling for eternity
Medicine too.
An instrument in my lab is running jdk 1_8_131…and this is a recent/newish piece of equipment.
Rails: “No. Don’t worry Ruby.”
Ruby: “Huh?”
Rails: *Hugs Ruby
Rails: “We’re becoming irrelevant.”Together forever!
Ruby -> Rails.
It just hasn’t had a second revival.
