Hello everyone,
I’ve been wondering, why has no one built an entirely free (as in freedom) computer yet? For humans to be unable to share each other’s knowledge to build one of the most important technologies ever created for society, how is it that we have yet to have full knowledge about how our systems operate?
I get that companies are basically the ones to blame, and I know there are alternatives like the Talos II by Raptor Computing, but still, how do we not have publicly available full schematics for just one modern computer? I’m talking down to firmware-level stuff like proprietary ECs, microcode, hard drive/SSD firmware, network controllers, etc. How do we not have a fully open system yet?
It’s sad but true. I’m just so baffled as to why? Wouldn’t anyone just be curious to figure out how stuff works? Think of all the brilliant minds out there who are being cut off simply because of corporate greed. Not only that, but they’re deemed as criminals for making it do something it wasn’t intended to do (e.g. Xbox 360 w/ RGH). I just think we’re wasting so much potential to make the world a better place. And we can already see the love behind just using and creating software while following the Free Software philosophy.
My goal is to help people, maybe you or anyone else might be interested, to get to actually USE their computers, understand how they work, etc.
The creator of Libreboot, Leah Rowe, and I are making support for the Dell Optiplex 9020 MT. It’s a Haswell motherboard that supports a i7 4790K, 32GB DDR3 RAM, you can also use a 2080 SUPER (or anything else), without the need for any proprietary BIOS firmware (eventually, we still need to reverse engineer 1-2 blobs). It has internal flashing capabilites, so no need to buy flashing equipment, all you need is an insulated screwdriver to short one of the SERVICE_MODE pins, which unlocks the flash chip basically. This allows you to flash the firmware through the OS, which makes it 10x easier for anyone to start using Libreboot. The motherboard you can buy on eBay right now for about $20, or you can buy the whole PC for like $100-$120. Still though, isn’t enough but it will be a step in the right direction.
It’s more complicated than sheer greed.
The fact of the matter is that actually producing any modern technology takes a massive amount of work, and up til this point, no one has gathered enough motivation and free time to do it all for any modern hardware just out of pure altruism. There’s a reason why companies have to pay hundreds of engineers a huge amount of money to get anything developed; those people are not going to do this incredibly difficult work just for fun and moral satisfaction. It’s easy to point the finger at corporate greed for some things being locked down, and to be clear, there’s plenty of valid criticism to go around, but it has to be at least considered that most of this stuff would never have been developed in the first place if it wasn’t for those same companies. Your average person is not going to assemble a motherboard from parts and schematics.
To this point, quite frankly, no. Average people simply do not care about this very much. They want to just turn on their magic internet box, get their work done, play their games, consume their media, and move on without any further fuss. The fact of the matter is that most people have no clue what a BIOS is, could not care less if it was proprietary or not, and have zero interest in learning about flashing them or why they would ever want to do that.
You can wire up a computer like people did in the eighties. Beep beep boop boop.
Designing modern cpus is crazy complicated and expensive.
Manufacturing is also crazy expensive. You need millions worth of machines and an industrial clean room.
@pearsaltchocolatebar @Valmond looooook we can build stuff… all the goods may be “owned” by the finance capitalists but theyre operated only by… who? THE WORKING CLASS baby. Never forget. we hold the keys to our freedom
There is absolutely no system of government or economics that would make it feasible to manufacture microchips in your garage.
Communist China and Soviet Russia would do it.
They wouldn’t be any good, but they’d do it.
No. No government would build microchip manufacturing plants in people’s garages.
This isn’t a problem caused by capitalism. The machines needed are highly specialized and require extremely tight tolerances. Both of those things require a lot of very expensive equipment to make.
You have to remember that we’re talking about billions if not trillions of transistors on a single chip. That’s not something you can just DIY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backyard_furnace
It’s a parallel. Mao tried to create industry in people’s backyards. It took people away from food production, destroyed existing valuable metal products, deforested the areas, and for all that effort, resulted in product with quality so bad it was unusable.
While it would probably also be more like input material production, silicon ingots and wafer slicing and such, I’m sure the quality would equally be shit enough to be unusable. Especially since metalwork tolerances are usually in micrometers at best, but microchips are in the nanometers.
You’re vastly underestimating the gulf of complexity between metal fabrication and processor manufacturing.
If this was even remotely feasible, don’t you think China would have done it for the several year long microchip shortage?
Why haven’t you? Same thing applies for everyone else.
If you had the skill to make an actually useful modern computer you probably work somewhere like that as your job, and you sure as shit don’t want to do that at home too. Especially since you’d probably never make any of your monetary investment back, let alone paying for your time.
While I understand the challenges you’re pointing out, it’s crucial to acknowledge that not everyone working on personal projects expects immediate financial gains. Some individuals are motivated by a passion for exploration and a desire to contribute to open and accessible technology. Even if replicating a professional-grade computer at home is challenging, there’s value in fostering a community-driven approach to technology, aiming for transparency and independence from corporate interests. The pursuit of knowledge and the potential for positive societal impact can be significant motivators, transcending immediate financial returns.
It’s not that genuine passion and altruism isn’t acknowledged; the entire open source software world is a testament to that.
You asked for an explanation as to why Free modern hardware hasn’t been developed yet. The simple answer is that passion and altruism has not yet been a strong enough incentive to motivate anyone to do it. He’s not accusing you of being lazy or hypocritical. The reason why you haven’t done it yet is the exact same reason why anyone else who could do it also hasn’t done it yet. It’s very very hard, and passion doesn’t pay the bills or feed you. Limited to a hobby, it’s simply more work than most people could ever hope to achieve in their spare time.
Sure. And the number of people who would do it purely because they want to is a tiny fraction of people who do it for pay. To pay those people you need profits, to get profits you need to be special, to be special you can’t share your trade secrets.
@Zeon @WalrusByte i am actually trying lol
I’m sorry if I came off as rude or anything. This issue just frustrates me so much.