I can see Word, PowerPoint and Outlook as stupid.
But Excel is perfect! You can’t say You have mastered it.
Even if You have written a book about Excel, it transcends You.
As much as I despise Microsoft and 365, Excel is like the one thing I genuinely think they deserve an incredible amount of credit for. It’s one of the most invaluable, well supported tools around.
Shame you can’t just buy it.
You can. It’s expensive, but perpetual licences for Office still exist. The Home edition is €150, the professional edition costs €580.
I mean Excel specifically, not the whole suite. I don’t need PowerPoint or a word processor, I’d rather it not be included in the price at all.
Also, they’ve made OneDrive a requirement for auto-saving on 365, not sure if that’s the case for the perpetual licenses, but if so, that’s a deal breaker for me. There will never be a Microsoft account associated with my Windows machine, period.
Unpopular opinion time: but give me a csv and a python script any day over excel.
I can’t count the hours I spend cleaning up and debugging xlsx files from customers that were completely unusable due to excels automatic data type feature.
You can turn that off now.
What do Excel and Incels have in common?
They assume everything is a date.
How about an Excel with Python scripting? That would be awesome.
Not sure if you’re joking, but that’s a thing. You can just insert python scripts into a cell and have their return values be the cell value.
Python in Excel requires Internet access because calculations run on remote servers in the Microsoft Cloud. The calculations are not run by your local Excel application.
… so?
Excel does too many things. A better price of software would do less.
I can’t tell if this is ironic or not, because it genuinely feels like Microsoft believes this when you look at the absolute disgrace “New” Outlook is.
For Microsoft, “Modern, sleek, streamlined” are just marketing terms for “We got lazy, made a less useful wed-based product, and you’ll have to accept it, at the same price, while we save money on development.”
Those are different categories of problems.
Excel really does too much. Biologists literally renamed a genom because Excel kept turning it into a date. If any other database did that, the vendor would hear a friendly but stern “get fucked”.
The reduced feature set in the web app is either development hasn’t reached parity, or they want it to be just enough to compete with Google sheets but keep people using the windows app.
A better price of software would be several different tools. But Microsoft want to keep the features set and backwards compatibility and the users don’t want big changes so the messy mishmash it what results.
Excel is used as a app builder, a database, plotting tool, table formatting, dashboard, visual basic environment, simulation environment there’s probably many more uses. I think it was supposed to be a calculator and accountancy book combination.
If anyone knew excel (or spreadsheets in general) would become what they did they would design it completely differently. A database that links to different pieces of software would be much better. That can’t exist now, because the markets consumed by excel.
I thought I knew everything about Excel, but just last week I learned that it now has TypeScript integration for macros. I nearly wept tears of joy. Finally I can leave behind VBA.
I really like Google sheets, QUERY() is so useful.
I will always appreciate a true Excel power user. I’ve seen some black magic shit.
When you know Excel really well, it’s like Legos for data. If you’ve got the imagination, intuition, and patience, you can make some incredible stuff.
And between knowing Excel like you’ve described and knowing only the basics exists an uncanny valley of being able to create some truly revolting abominations. Additionally when all you know is Excel, every problem becomes a spreadsheet, for better or for worse (usually the latter).
Program management system for the entire division? Excel. “Agile” task tracker? Excel. Requirements manager? Oh no no, that one’s written in a word document with no version control. I have trauma. Use tools made for the thing you want to do, please.
Yeah, I appreciate that, and it’s really annoying. But it is still remarkable how Excel can pull off all of those abominations while having such a comparatively low skill floor.
Like Legos. Accessible, simple, capable of building a lot of things, but you’d obviously be better served making a house out of actual building materials.
This user:
“Don’t worry I’m learning Power BI so I won’t have to use Excel for everything soon.”
Good Excel users think themselves better than a beginner. Great Excel users think themselves somewhere between Intermediate and Advanced. Excel Masters, and I know one who placed in that Excel data modeling competition, know they’re somewhere in the Intermediate to Advanced range.
Excel masters wish the downloaded an ide a just coded all those tools the have to support now.
Used for the right purposes, Excel is an extremely versatile and powerful piece of software. Is use it all the time for analyzing complex financial data and turning pivot tables into really nice looking reports. I can use VBA behind the scenes to change report scenarios while preserving the formatting. Excel is great for things like that.
It’s easy to get Into trouble though because eventually someone decides to keep a bunch of auxiliary – yet somehow very important – data in a spreadsheet. Before you know it, multiple people are being asked to maintain said data and then POOF! You now have a spreadsheet functioning as a database. It’s all downhill from there.
Yeah, but it’s the kind of black magic where you accidentally summon Cthulhu and only notice it, after he destroyed half of the city.
Yeah, but then again, those are the people that tie companies to Microsoft and, *gestures broadly at Windows and M365* enabled MS to do whatever they want to the market without paying dinner first.
Excel is a powerful tool. I was solving system of differential equations with Newton method in it. Sometimes it is easier than in Matlab (or Mathematica) if all you have is good understanding of how step-wise equations should look like, but not the differential equations themselves. Those steps may include if statements, for example.
Had to do a similar project and it took me three full days of back and forth with another software before I found out EXCEL rounds small numbers in very weird ways.
Also, in EXCEL functions/formulas and data/values are wildly mixed.
(Not mentioning a plethora of other mildly infuriating quirks here)
Matlab excels at dgls, Excel does math not. Newton method isn’t it
Dude, I’m a surgical tech - my job is to stand in an OR and be a surgeon’s removed while we’re flaying some fucker open. …and I still spend what feels like 90% of my day on Outlook -_-
I think you’re supposed to Inlook during surgery.
ERMAHGERD! I fucking love torturing my coworkers with medical dadjokes. I am bookmarking this in my brain, and will steal it when the opportunity presents.
The groans and facepalms will be glorious!
But please don’t face plant into someone during a surgery
Is it just me or is office 365 just worse and more impractical than the old office suites?
I think it’s mostly because they keep trying to push other services down your throat. For example, opening a link in Outlook opens it in Edge, even when your default browser is something else. I can’t use Edge for that link, I’m not signed into stuff there. So now, because of removed decisions like that, Outlook actually is missing basic features that Hotmail in the 90s had.
FYI you can change that in settings to launch the systems default browser. Extra steps yes, but the option is there.
because of removed decisions like that
You know you could have just used shitty instead of using a slur, which would have the same emphasis without the baggage of the other word.
Idiot. Moron. Imbecile. All words used as removed before it. 🤷♂️
Shitty has a different meaning. Above commenter meant to say the person making the decision was differently abled with regards to their cognitive capabilities. The other is excrement.
Seriously, wtf is wrong with this website? I saw this again just this week. Next I know these a holes will be going around calling things gay. "WeLl AlShUlLy ThE dEfInItIoN Of GaY iS HaPpY sO… "
If you really felt it necessary to offer a synonym, you could have said “backward” … because that’s what the word actually means
because of removed decisions like that
“removed”, really? JFC what is this, 2001?
The definition of “removedation” is as follows:
- The act or process of delaying or impeding.
- The condition of being delayed or impeded.
- The extent to which something is held back or delayed.
Considering that the features being complained about impede the user, calling those features “removed” is an adequate description.
It is also in-fitting with the definition of lacking of intellectual development; as mentioned, other programs do not feature such impediments, and in the case of Office 365, may actually be a regression of features.
Caveat emptor ESL here but, while that’s true, wouldn’t under those terms “removeding” be a much better fit?
Yes the decision isn’t removed, it was made fast enough. The consequence is removeding though.
removed has transitioned from an impartial term to one that is negatively loaded. For this reason, the term is now widely considered as degrading even when used in its original context.[10]
Much like today’s socially acceptable terms idiot and moron, which are also defined as some sort of mental disability, when the term removed is being used in its pejorative form, it is usually not being directed at people with mental disabilities. Instead, people use the term when teasing their friends or as a general insult.[11]
Do you think people who have the condition of mental removedation experience bigotry in our society? Are you not aware “removed” has been used extensively as a slur? And are you so inconvenienced you can’t come up with a single less-problematic synonym?
Yes I am aware that removed has been used as a slur… Against those that don’t have any reason to behave like a removed.
I do not see any issue.
In what way? I use it a lot and feel like it’s still on par with the older versions. It’s got some annoying “Microsoft-y” things typical to them from the last 10 years or so but I think the core functionality is still intact.
The Matlab logo looks like a boner under a sheet and now I can’t unsee it.
why did you have to say this
Nope I’m not seeing it personally.
Don’t forget LaTeX!
Self-flagilation is a little far for me.
Once your over the hump, it’s a pleasure to use relative to word. Especially if your document gets large or has lots of maths in it.
And LaTeX works very well with git, this is really great when you are collaborating on a report.
How can you say that with a straight face when you like Matlab?
I mean, the MATLAB wojak has a dent in its skull, which feels pretty accurate. There is a ton of complex, niche, and (for those within the niche) incredibly useful software in the various Toolboxes, all developed with those fat stacks of MATLAB money. But it’s all piloted with the MATLAB language, which is just one of the worst things ever for oh so very many reasons.
And it’s wildly expensive.
i love compiler errors in my documentation
Please forget LaTeX. Please let us adopt a more modern alternative that isn’t absolutely painful to use.
And yet MATLAB is still on the list 😹
I suggest locking your doors, a very angry crowd is likely to arrive shortly
I’m all ears.
I’ve been using Typst. Its (mostly) open source and much simpler than LaTeX. It’s still very new though, so it doesn’t have all of LaTeX’s features, but it’s making very steady progress.
Seems a bit early to declare an end to Latex then. According to you some use cases aren’t supported. What isn’t open source about it?
Don’t get me wrong, Latex has lots of weird quirks, and you made it sound like there were a few obvious options to replace it. But Typst doesn’t look like is ready for prime time.
I wasn’t trying to imply that Typst is a replacement for LaTeX. I’m more trying to say that I’m hoping Typst (and any other typesetting alternatives that might be out there) mature enough over the next year or two to become full replacements. It just doesn’t seem to be gaining much attention because of how dominant LaTeX is.
The main part that’s not open source is their web client, which I’m fine with. There’s a number of people on GitHub that aren’t happy about it though.
I see. It’s been a while since I last used Latex in college. Back then Kylyx was still in it’s infancy and I anyway had a established workflow with Makefiles. It seemed to me back then that the steady progress in user interface of Latex tools (like Kylyx and etc.) would be enough to make it more accessible.
Just like you have great coding IDEs nowadays with AI code completion helpers, something similar could be done for Latex. Incremental compilers for Markdown allow you to see changes in real-time in some editors, would be nice to have something of the sort for Latex. With these two and a context sensitive syntax helper (Clippy, but not annoying), and you have a killer solution. And one that is backwards compatible with all the tools that have been developed for Latex in these past decades.
It’s just different use cases. A quick one pager such as memo, summary, short review, etc can all be done in a simple word processor.
Anything thesis-like or scientific, definitely LaTeX. What needs to die is slides in LaTeX however. That is definitely outdated and so restricted. Even libre office PowerPoint is better. But again, the power of math syntax is strong here. You’re very likely to see that ugly beamer format in CS and math classes.
I don’t get why people need to be in camps. Just use…both?
I mean more that LaTeX’s syntax and compilation methods are outdated. I’ve tried to grok LaTeX many times, but the most I’ve ever been able to do is make small modifications to existing templates. I’ve never been able to make a brand new project work. I’m really hoping that modern alternatives like Typst become more common. There just don’t seem to be many out there because of how dominant LaTeX is.
Being a SOLIDWORKS customer is exactly the same as being a rat in a cage. They are the most aggressively evil I’ve ever experienced. Adobe etc not even close
I have to use solidworks at work. God, do I miss Creo.
I used Creo for about 5 years at a previous job but I never knew the cost. How does it compare?
Creo has a bit of a steeper learning curve to be sure, and is more expensive.
But it also is, in my experience, much more robust and has a lot more capability on the advanced side of modeling. Solidworks requires more workarounds in order to accomplish what you’re trying to do, vs Creo with probably a dedicated tool for that specific task.
Compare in cost
What are some examples? What makes them so much more evil than Adobe?
Not that bad when you sail the high seas
I’ve known people that had authorities show up from that btw
Garbage software is one of the primary reasons I left my last job despite high pay. It just got too friggin annoying to use. They’d roll out a ‘hotfix’ to fix something they had broken 3 months earlier and they’d break 2 new things which previously had been working fine for years. The support was so bad I just bought a magic eight ball for our office and we’d ask it our support questions.
Yardi, I’m looking at you.
Damn, I really dodged a bullet there… by them rejecting my application.
matlab
Octave works as a great replacement
Octave 💪💻!!
TBF if you’re professionally using MATLAB you’re like, sending people to space or modeling atmospheres. Which I guess some of you might do haha.
I’ve used it to simulate things for mechanisms and motors etc for mechanical engineering
MATLAB being jacked but still a little off feels right to me lol.
I want to love Julia so much, but it’s always something. The funky handling of scope in the REPL was the latest off-putting thing for me, but maybe I should give it a try again…
Yep, that hole on the head is perfectly representative.
If you don’t like MATLAB your probably not the correct audience. It’s for people needing to do data analysis, simulation or control and have a lot of money to pay for the libraries. The things software developers hate about it tend to be what makes it better for statistics and modelling. Math works even suggest it isn’t appropriate for making software as the sell simulink coder that turns simulink models into c++ code.
I am 100% the target audience, have worked on multiple teams that did their 6DOF models in Matlab for GNC and orbital dynamics stuff.
I still think simulink is absolutely terrible. It makes certain things a lot easier to implement but the Git implementation is very nearly useless.
There’s a middleground. Power Automate. The website crashes Firefox.
I hate power automate so so so much
Why?
I guess I’m so used to thinking in code, and power automate seems hell-bent on being aimed at More business oriented folks. I find it extremely unintuitive, and downright hostile in terms of actually getting something done that I know how to do, but I’m not allowed to.
That’s why I use Powershell with the Graph API module. Of course running scripts is probably disabled for non admins.
100%. Power automate doing anything other than the templates they have is almost always harder than just writing python
I think you nailed it. Why as a developer admin in a corporation one would use powerautomate? At my last job I had to, as I dodnt have machines to physically run some tools and automation my team needed, or access to higher level stuff but that sounds to me like an Oracle sysadmin complaining that Access is a pain in the ass, just don’t use it…
The licensing process is very confusing for starters.
Hardly an end user problem though? I’m used to get it through corporate deals at work and in an organisation I volunteer for. Slightly different setups and access to tools but not through end of the world
I was going to say: the office environment doesn’t suck that much, or rather it’s not aimed at people with advanced programing knowledge. Rather everyone else (which is probably the majority in the professional world).
For people who have no or little IT knowledge it’s actually very handy.
I’ve learned a little bit of programming during my studies (mostly R) and I’m now working in a big company.
Power automate is so useful and nearly ALL parts of the office ecosystem is accessible to it. And it’s possible to use it with very little coding knowledge.
It’s now my main tool of work (with excel).
You’re probably at the wrong job then.
Me: oracle, oracle and more oracle
Damnit, who put a maze with no exits in this cage?
