I think breathing solder fumes is disgusting. I pay for someone else to do it for me and they don’t get paid well. My using electronics is contributing to humans dying for pennies. How is that more ethical than paying someone to process meat instead of doing it myself?
If you want to talk about poor living conditions and inhumane slaughtering practices I cant argue against that. You want to debate that all living animals have a right to life I’ll ask why don’t plants have that right. But the OP’s argument is silly and not a solid argument against eating meat.
I have killed and butchered my own chickens and I have gotten pretty good at it but there were a few near the beginning that didn’t go as smoothly as I’d like. If anyone really cares about the suffering of animals they wouldn’t be encouraging amateurs to do it just to prove they are worthy of eating meat.
I think breathing solder fumes is disgusting. I pay for someone else to do it for me and they don’t get paid well. My using electronics is contributing to humans dying for pennies. How is that more ethical than paying someone to process meat instead of doing it myself?
Do you think someone breathing poison for pennies on the dollar is how it should be? Probably not, right? But you can change those. Better pay is possible, as is better working conditions. It’s just the option ain’t really there for meat
OP’s point is very simple: many people do not confront the unnecessary violence in their habits. Commodities are decontextualized, as you’re attempting to say. To many, animal products just don’t seem like animals and they get very upset when they truly understand those products as being other thinking, feeling things. OP is challenging people to go through that exercise and, hopefully, recognize that they do actually care enough to make minor habitual changes and not kill the animals for entertainment purposes. They just hadn’t confronted it sufficiently.
Personally, I think you and others do understand this. Very few questions, lots of rationalization.
Re: your disgust at soldering, it’s obviously not the same. You’re not morally disgusted or upset by the existence of soldering fumes, which is the confrontation in OP’s post. You’re changing the basic nature of the disgust from discomfort at the idea of killing another thinking being to merely reacting to a smell. I think we all understand that these are very different bases of disgust and that the moral disgust has a component evoking personal moral consistency while the other is a simple physical response.
You did try to find a way to talk about moral consistency in consumption, as all leftists do when confronted with doing something immoral at the personal level that involves consumption or production. No ethical consumption under capitalism, right? No ethical production, either! Individualist. Moralizing. These thought-terminating cliches get trotted out whenever a lefty wants to avoid addressing these kinds of issues and it’s always highly selective. The same person will hate cops or get pissed about someone they know building baby-killing bombs for money or carry out one-person boycotts because they hate one particular company.
Anyways, the kernel of truth in your example is that you know it’s wrong that someone else is underpaid. You haven’t really said that you think the fumes are a problem for the workers doing the work you’re avoiding, so there’s nothing implied to be wrong with that. In bb fact, you didn’t explore what the alternatives would be at all, because this isn’t a serious attempt at counteepoint. But differential exploitation, especially with such vast differences due to imperialism, yes that’s something we agree should be abolished.
If we make your analogy fit despite the other flaws, that would make you someone who thinks the vegans are right but you’re personally not making your own changes.
Does that describe you? The vegans are right about all of this but dang it, you just can’t make the change?
They aren’t, but if you would like expand upon what you believe is misunderstood instead of just asserting that as a premise you are free to do so, and I may reconsider my position depending on your response.
I’ve personally already replied to several comments if you are interested. Maybe you should go read the thread before assuming I’m merely making assertions.
Surely you’re trying to miss the point.
I think breathing solder fumes is disgusting. I pay for someone else to do it for me and they don’t get paid well. My using electronics is contributing to humans dying for pennies. How is that more ethical than paying someone to process meat instead of doing it myself?
If you want to talk about poor living conditions and inhumane slaughtering practices I cant argue against that. You want to debate that all living animals have a right to life I’ll ask why don’t plants have that right. But the OP’s argument is silly and not a solid argument against eating meat.
I have killed and butchered my own chickens and I have gotten pretty good at it but there were a few near the beginning that didn’t go as smoothly as I’d like. If anyone really cares about the suffering of animals they wouldn’t be encouraging amateurs to do it just to prove they are worthy of eating meat.
Do you think someone breathing poison for pennies on the dollar is how it should be? Probably not, right? But you can change those. Better pay is possible, as is better working conditions. It’s just the option ain’t really there for meat
You’re talking yourself in circles.
OP’s point is very simple: many people do not confront the unnecessary violence in their habits. Commodities are decontextualized, as you’re attempting to say. To many, animal products just don’t seem like animals and they get very upset when they truly understand those products as being other thinking, feeling things. OP is challenging people to go through that exercise and, hopefully, recognize that they do actually care enough to make minor habitual changes and not kill the animals for entertainment purposes. They just hadn’t confronted it sufficiently.
Personally, I think you and others do understand this. Very few questions, lots of rationalization.
Re: your disgust at soldering, it’s obviously not the same. You’re not morally disgusted or upset by the existence of soldering fumes, which is the confrontation in OP’s post. You’re changing the basic nature of the disgust from discomfort at the idea of killing another thinking being to merely reacting to a smell. I think we all understand that these are very different bases of disgust and that the moral disgust has a component evoking personal moral consistency while the other is a simple physical response.
You did try to find a way to talk about moral consistency in consumption, as all leftists do when confronted with doing something immoral at the personal level that involves consumption or production. No ethical consumption under capitalism, right? No ethical production, either! Individualist. Moralizing. These thought-terminating cliches get trotted out whenever a lefty wants to avoid addressing these kinds of issues and it’s always highly selective. The same person will hate cops or get pissed about someone they know building baby-killing bombs for money or carry out one-person boycotts because they hate one particular company.
Anyways, the kernel of truth in your example is that you know it’s wrong that someone else is underpaid. You haven’t really said that you think the fumes are a problem for the workers doing the work you’re avoiding, so there’s nothing implied to be wrong with that. In bb fact, you didn’t explore what the alternatives would be at all, because this isn’t a serious attempt at counteepoint. But differential exploitation, especially with such vast differences due to imperialism, yes that’s something we agree should be abolished.
If we make your analogy fit despite the other flaws, that would make you someone who thinks the vegans are right but you’re personally not making your own changes.
Does that describe you? The vegans are right about all of this but dang it, you just can’t make the change?
I doubt it.
I don’t really have much to add but just btw, solder flux fumes are toxic, they don’t only have a smell
Not sure what this adds but would like to justadda context onto that bit.
Absolutely! I solder in a well-ventilated area with a fan and a chemical respirator.
Fun fact: I can’t even smell the fumes with that respirator. Half of OP’s example is easily circumvented with basic PPE.
The point has been fully grasped, the point just happens to be very silly.
Then why are all the criticisms premised on basic misunderstanding? Are you saying parent is dishonest?
They aren’t, but if you would like expand upon what you believe is misunderstood instead of just asserting that as a premise you are free to do so, and I may reconsider my position depending on your response.
I’ve personally already replied to several comments if you are interested. Maybe you should go read the thread before assuming I’m merely making assertions.