- cross-posted to:
- starwarsmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- starwarsmemes@lemmy.world
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The Jedi are so needlessly neglectful towards Anakin in their attempt to try to teach him to be emotionally detached, and then they wonder why he became loyal to the only guy who would actually listen to him (even if it was just to use him).
The Jedi: Emotionally neglect Anakin for years
Anakin turns on them
The Jedi: …
That is why Anikin was too old to be trained as a Jedi. Not because he was too old to learn how to fight, but because he was too old to be brainwashed to be a warrior monk. He had ties to the outside world. If they had started his training at birth, he would have no worldly ties to hold him back.
And before anyone calls me out on it, I have not consumed any Star Wars media other than the first 6 movies. I am well aware that I am pulling lore out of my butt.
I’ve consumed plenty of star wars. You’re spot on.
The jedi are so colossally ignorant it’s sometimes funny. They, in the height of their power during the new republic, sought to fulfill a prophecy that would bring balance to the force. My dudes, the scale is so heavily tipped in your favor what the fuck do you think is going to happen?
Actually the council decided not to, but qui-gon, the grayest motherfucker there, decided to do it anyway. Maybe there was some intent there?
Quigon trusted the force. There were 2 paths, and he hoped for the one that didn’t come to pass. And then he trusted that Obiwan would be able to stand in for him if he needed to.
The most damning thing he ever said was ‘you were my brother Anakin. I loved you.’ Because a brother was not what Anakin needed.
But, you know what, I blame the whole thing on Yoda. One kind word from Yoda. One reassurance from this being who had lived so long in the world he literally had no right to not have god like wisdom, and it all would have been averted. So many possible off ramps and they failed anakin at every turn. It’s the most tragic story ever.
This and crucially he is beyond the age at which he can have his understanding of (and fear of) death moulded (brainwashed) to the weird Jedi dogma.
You can make people do some really fucked up shit if you can disassociate their emotions from the deaths of those around them.
Too old doesn’t make sense when you consider that Luke started later and had none of the same issues.
Although Yoda made the same point with him.
Further, one could argue that he did have those same exact issues, despite an almost “best” case scenario at the time Yoda brought it up, as it relates to this issue: the only family he knew was killed on the farm, his best friend from his past life was killed in the Death Star battle, his mentor and teacher was killed escaping from the death star, and he had no idea who his father really was or that his sister even existed.
The only major attachments he’d formed that could still be used against him and his training were those he’d made to his friends, and to a lesser extent, his cause.
And what happened?
As soon as his powers were trained to the point that he could reach out with his feelings and sense (and be sensed) across the wider galaxy, literally as soon as he gets to that level, the Sith use it as a weapon, and manipulate him using his few attachments, lure him away from his training and out of hiding and indeed directly to Vader, who then puts another barb of attachment into him by revealing his ancestry.
Had Vader not had the dual “failure” of both trying to recruit his son against the emperor and then later turning on the emperor (and of course, Palpatine’s arrogance in underestimating both Luke’s resolve and Vader’s attachment), the plan would have absolutely worked, dooming the Jedi and the Alliance in one fell swoop.
Like…not only is Luke not a great case for “age doesn’t matter”, he’s very nearly the poster child for why it does.
I disagree but your comment shows me that I don’t actually give a shit enough to debate it
Why even bring it up to begin with lmao
Because I believe I’m right and that it adds something to the discussion but if someone is passionate enough to write a 5 paragraph rant on why they think I’m wrong it’s definitely not worth my time to argue with them.
Centuries of training padawans and no one thought about reading some child development theory.
Because the jedi aren’t the good guys. I’ve said it for years they’re designed as the righteous side of the same coin of the Sith. Always rambling about balance and such then willingly submitting as the lapdog police force of the bloated and corrupt Republic, only taking action when their masters need a war. It’s thousands of years of moral objectivity gone wrong through the eyes of dogma fanatics who’ve lost their way.
Even Luke’s revival (fuck off Disney) is bound to fail.
Fun fact this is how radicalization works in the real world too
no it’s just evil bad people being evil and there’s no explanation or analysis to be done in real life
Refuse to understand it and it will always take you by surprise.
Ok, but the Padme deal was dope
I liked the prequel because of the mirror between Luke and Anakin. Luke had friends, a caring loving family, was born into royalty but grew up in the slums, his teachings were to be his most self and he had agency in how he wanted his destiny to turn out, not being pressed into a box of expectations and limitations. The list goes on but I always loved the idea George Lucas had, felt like he just needed to solidify his ideas a bit more
Lucas was excellent at big picture things, but should have been kept out of the details. Particularly dialogue
Way I heard it, he was well aware of that and actually tried to get people who would slap him down as necessary, but didn’t manage it.
It was also the result of inexperienced actors.
In the OT the actors would regularly be like “I don’t think this line sounds good let’s with this instead”
But in the PT everyone just went along with everything due to lack of experience and not wanting to be hard to work with/think they’re better than the director
That’s just about the opposite of the relative experience of the actors involved in both trilogies.
The original trilogy was filled with almost completely inexperienced actors. The prequels were mostly cast with experienced performers, excepting the child actors of course.
The real difference is that Lucas didn’t actually direct most of the original trilogy in the first place.
I’ve always heard the opposite but I could be wrong.
I mean, George Lucas hired Harrison Ford as a carpenter because he wasn’t interested in doing a second movie after American Graffiti.
Mark Hamill was probably the most experienced member of the original cast because he had done some TV work.
Natalie Portman had starred in four features before Star Wars and McGregor had done more than ten.
Peter Cushing was hardly inexperienced
I think Mark Hamill has mentioned before that there were times when Harrison Ford pushed back against Lucas that Han Solo would never say the lines he was given, and got them changed as a result.
I hate Lucas’s dialogue. It’s coarse and irritating and fart noises
Weesa doo no like aaahfoll tok
The issue was making them about Vader at all. He was just some lackey who was the protagonist’s dad, that doesn’t mean you need three movies of back story on how he got there.
If you want to do that, then you need to make them far more emotionally invested films because they are just a cavalcade of inept decisions.
Not blowing any of the extended lore and based on the prequels it seems more like ani just forgot about his mom till he went to visit that one time
It is okay, Darth Vader is the lead protagonist in the Star Wars universe. Without him, the Emperor would never have been defeated.
He is the one that goes through the hero’s arc.
Luke Skywalker was a complete failure in every way possible. The only thing he succeeded at was being so worthless that Vader finally had to act and save both his son and the universe.
yeah anakin/Vadsr had a complete arc, but then, somehow Palpatine returned.
Did they ever even try to explain that shit?
There is great video on how the Jedi teachings of no emotion and complete detachement are awful for anyone who would attempt them and directly lead to his turn to the dark side.
The old republic really was a comedy of unforced errors, wasn’t it?
