u/explorerofbells - originally from r/GenZhou
Hey comrades,
I’m a part of a discord server called Vegan Theory Club that’s run by mix of leftist tendencies. It’s a theory club that’s explicitly leftist and vegan, but we talk about more than just the book of the month.
We just started reading Eternal Treblinka - Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust by Charles Patterson, which we voted for. (Our last book was Kapital.) Right now is the perfect time to join!
We’d love to have you!
u/explorerofbells - originally from r/GenZhouI think the technology is interesting, but the problem is that with cell cultures, you must perform a biopsy to retrieve the cells.
I don’t reject the covid vaccines, and neither do most vegans, even though they are tested on animals, because vaccines are absolutely necessary for public health and save millions of lives. They didn’t need to be tested on animals, there’s other ways, but our system isn’t there yet. (It should be noted that covid, like most zoonotic viruses, is caused by animal exploitation.)
Lab grown meat, on the other hand, is not necessary. No one needs to wait for this technology to go vegan. To put palate pleasure over another’s consent to their bodily autonomy is oppressive. Would you justify caging and doing biopsies on humans without their consent if human flesh tasted nice?
u/69Epicchungus1488_2 - originally from r/GenZhouThat’s a very idealistic and non-utilitarian opinion.
The death of a few animals could prevent the suffering and deaths of millions of others. If you reduce necessary animal agriculture to merely growing animals for research and stem cell extraction you can also supply these animals with an excellent quality of life far exceeding that of even free range farm animals today.
Humans have a pyschological need for freedom and purpose that animals don’t. An animal wants space to roam, others of its kind to mate and interact with and stimulation.
Think about how content and happy a dog is to eat horrible leftovers and play with old tennis balls. On the other hand if you made a human live like that they would (probably) be absolutely dehumanised and incredibly miserable
Caging a human and treating one like an animal is unethical because humans have complicated psychological needs that require freedom and the ability to interact with humans on an equal level.
u/explorerofbells - originally from r/GenZhouYou don’t know that. You can’t just make shit up and pretend you’re being scientific.
We do not exploit animals because we deem them to be inferior, rather, we deem animals to be inferior because we exploit them.
Further, I find utilitarianism to be an insufficient and backwards ideology. The Nazis justified human experimentation against my people for the “greater good.”
As a leftist, you should know better than to presuppose your own supremacy against other people, even non-human people. Your might does not make you right.
u/red_curry_powder - originally from r/GenZhouI’m not a utilitarian, and I’m a vegan. To call it a backwards ideology is just extremely ignorant.
u/explorerofbells - originally from r/GenZhouIt’s backwards when it’s being used to justify raping, imprisoning, exploiting, and murdering others for your pleasure or some nebulous “greater good.”
Again, this self same ideology was used to justify the detention and genocide of my ancestors. It’s being used no differently here. It’s absolutely within reason to call it backwards.
u/red_curry_powder - originally from r/GenZhouIt’s an ethical normative framework, IDK why you’re calling it an ideology. Within that normative framework that are tons of different positions, not all are straight consequentialists.