u/explorerofbells - originally from r/GenZhou
Hey comrades,
I’m a part of a discord server called Vegan Theory Club that’s run by mix of leftist tendencies. It’s a theory club that’s explicitly leftist and vegan, but we talk about more than just the book of the month.
We just started reading Eternal Treblinka - Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust by Charles Patterson, which we voted for. (Our last book was Kapital.) Right now is the perfect time to join!
We’d love to have you!
u/Jerry_the_Goat - originally from r/GenZhouPutting your faith in lab-grown meat and wishing that it’ll replace all animal products is akin to wishing that robots will replace all manual labourers under capitalism. The solution is already here, before we will eat lab grow meat we can eat plants, before we will automate all work we can emancipate the working class. We’re nowhere near to replicating flesh tissue on massive scale but we’re able to grow beans, lentils, oats, peas and nuts. We need to re-examine our relationship with these alternative (for the most of western world at least) sources of protein before we make a huge leap of replacing animal products with lab grown stuff. Even now ppl think bean burgers are not “real” or it’s “a copycat”; you think those picky eaters will eagerly switch to something so outlandish and unnatural like lab-grown meat?
u/courtneygoe - originally from r/GenZhouIf I ate the diet you’re suggesting, I’d be in a constant state of gall bladder attack to the point I’d be unable to even move. Lots of people have digestive issues. The current mode of production being destructive does not mean any and all animal products are inherently destructive to produce. Amazing how people who aren’t western were able to do that for millennia without collapsing the environment. I swear this “vegan” movement isn’t to be trusted whatsoever.
u/Jerry_the_Goat - originally from r/GenZhouYou’re not alone, this report says that more than 40% of ppl worldwide suffers from some sort of gastrointestinal disorder (tummy aches). The solution to this is higher fibre intake, increase it slowly, incrementally and from variety of sources (fruits with their skin, vegetables, legumes, grains, nuts and those fibre breakfast cereals, you know which one).
Every person on plant-based diet went through this unless they ate that way since being born. For my bowels it took them about 3 weeks to adjust to new diet, grow new gut microbes that feed on plant matter not dairy and meat, stop gurgling after I eat a carrot etc.
If you eat enough fibre and still experience intestinal problems then that could be the result of the stress in your life and with that I cannot help.
u/courtneygoe - originally from r/GenZhouI’m almost 34 years old. I didn’t need you to explain fiber to me, a person who has had intense GI problems since birth and hereditary weak gall bladder that runs in my family. Diet modifications/management saved me from the emergency gall bladder removal 90 percent of the women in my family need before they’re 30. Diet alone still leaves me sick. Illnesses exist, your comment makes you seem like a naive fool. Maybe consider the fact that people know their own medical problems better than you do.
u/Jerry_the_Goat - originally from r/GenZhouOk, it’s just everyone on reddit seems to have those uncommon diseases preventing them from eating vegetables. I’m curious though, shouldn’t ppl with failing gallbladder problems eat low-fat and low-cholesterol diets? I’m asking cos like I said, I’m learning every day from redditors with unique medical history
And if you absolutely can’t stomach any more fibre then you’ll be delighted to know that you can eat low-fibre plant-based diet. How cool is that. I’m sure that you’ll make use of that obscure information, how rude it would be to just refuse to learn and try new things.
u/calciumpotass - originally from r/GenZhouWhat the actual fuck with that atitude
u/Jerry_the_Goat - originally from r/GenZhouI’m sorry that my stance against animal exploitation is not to your liking. Maybe say it out loud what do you really expect of me. What kind of attitude you can tolerate. Do you wish that vegans would grant some ppl exclusive rights to eat animals? Would you even care if they do? I bet that the only attitude you’d wish to see from vegans is that of a silence, total indifference, basically anything that wouldn’t make you think and reexamine your way of treating animals.
I swear, every conversation about changing one’s life to benefit the society goes exactly the same way, no matter if we’re talking with lib, leftist, conservative or whoever. Everyone have one in a kind relationship with their diet, their entertainment and all of their commodities. You could try listing all the benefits of idk swapping car for public transport and someone will swear to god that they can’t live without driving everywhere, and all anti-car ppl are evil and can’t understand their circumstances. You could try dissuading ppl from buying from nestle and you’ll find that autism or ED prevents some from going without their cereals and candy bars
🤷 tough luck, it seems that nestle, car centred cities and animal agriculture will have to stay forever. Idk how someone could ever try to change society for the better
u/calciumpotass - originally from r/GenZhouVegans are cool, you’re just a caricature of what conservatives think of them.
u/Jerry_the_Goat - originally from r/GenZhouLol, you started agreeing with conservatives whenever someone else proposes a change that’s slightly inconvenient for you?
u/A-V-A-Weyland - originally from r/GenZhouI support further research into mechanization and having robots take over the menial and backbreaking jobs. I too promote further research into lab-grown meat. Just because it isn’t a reality now doesn’t mean that the technology itself isn’t feasible in the future. Research in lab-grown meat isn’t just about meat, it’s about cell cultures, it’s about tissue growth, these technologies translate to other uses that have nothing to do with the consumption of meat such as artificial organs and limb regeneration. That’s the neat thing about research and innovation; developments in one area will create offshoots in another area.
All of you are disregarding the prospect of lab-grown meat because it isn’t feasible now. Guess what? The first iterations of a new technology always suck and are always expensive. Every technology we take for granted right now used to suck. Guess what also sucked? Plants. Plants sucked. They were not nutritious. It took millennia of continuous domestication and cultivation for them to be nutritious enough to allow for modern society. Yet you guys want instant solutions. How shortsighted.
You are never going to get everyone to stop eating meat unless there is a revolutionary alternative. You can’t even get people to switch to chicken meat to lower their carbon footprint and you want to convince them to eat lentils? You can’t even get everyone to wear face masks properly to protect their loved ones and you want to have them give up something they’re hardwired to enjoy? You’re comparing an ideal to an imperfect reality, with reality coming off as a shoddy second.
u/Jerry_the_Goat - originally from r/GenZhouYou asked a vegan for their opinion on lab-grown meat so they’ll answer in that context, from the perspective of a vegan talking to non-vegan. You may simply not be aware but vegans are not against eating flesh-like substances but against commodification of animals for the sake of food, clothing, testing, entertainment etc. If lab-grown meat would be developed with assistance of consenting human test subjects then I wouldn’t see anything wrong with it. But rn the most advanced procedures requires fresh samples of cell tissue from live animals that’ll have to be kept in captivity ie: be commodified. Just as I wouldn’t want to be held captive as a test subject against my will I won’t endorse that way of development of lab-grown meat. If it would be cruelty-free then I’ll be all for it. I’m type I diabetic and I’d happily lend my cell tissue to develop lab-grown pancreas. And even more so if it wouldn’t be developed for profit incentive
Not that my opinion or “voting with my wallet” would ever matter btw.
u/A-V-A-Weyland - originally from r/GenZhouYou’re just making shit up now. You don’t need continual cell sampling, all companies work with a single cell line of which the animal has died years ago. Taking new samples from new animals messes with the data and introduces too much variation in the results.
u/bongmom420 - originally from r/GenZhouSource? Mosa Meat claims that one tissue sample from a cow has a production capacity of about 80,000 quarter pounders, which granted is impressively large, but still quite finite. Source: https://mosameat.com/growing-beef
u/A-V-A-Weyland - originally from r/GenZhouTissue samples for research are increasingly made from reconfiguring stem cells.
u/Jerry_the_Goat - originally from r/GenZhouWhat about fetal bovine serum on which the cells are grown? And what about Hayflick effect, won’t closed genetic pool of animal cells produce tumours eventually?
I’m genuinely curious, you seem like a knowledgeable fellow.
u/A-V-A-Weyland - originally from r/GenZhouThat’s why you don’t use somatic cells, or normal cells. Stem cells don’t follow this rules. Maybe for the current production they use somatic cells to save money, but when it comes to research you want to have your samples be identical and the best way to achieve that is through samples derived from stem cells.
u/warender99 - originally from r/GenZhouDamn well said honestly.