Whenever you criticize authoritarianism as practiced by groups or individuals that position themselves on the left, at least one person shows up to invalidate your criticism, without really engaging with what you brought up, and that not by mere logical reasoning, but by applying an ideological believe that thrives for some sort of unity, and just pushes that believe with what ever logical fallacy suits at the moment best.
I don’t get it. What’s the problem with criticism against authoritarianism in an anarchist forum?
It’s a community inside a ML website, so most people who wouldn’t accept being around authoritarians would avoid this place I guess.
I mean, I suppose most people here are anthiautoritarian, excluding avant guardists and ancaps that end up here somehow.
So what are you trying to bring up ?
This is an online space, and we don’t know exactly where you position your self, you might have real life experience that lead you to your current beliefs that we are unaware of. Please be patient. We are still getting to know each others.
ML as in Mali or ML as in something else? Can you explain what ‘ML website’ means, as I honestly don’t know.
Marxist Leninist
got it, thanks!
the lack of moderation since so many authoritarians comment on our posts is annoying too.
so many authoritarians comment
Hmm, are you sure about that? Of all the recent comments here I can only think of one (the one with the neo-soviet propaganda) that was clearly authoritarian. Edit: ok two, there was also one with a link to a text written by Trotsky.
Whenever you criticize [alarmist diversionary out-group think] as practiced by groups or individuals that position themselves on the left, at least one person shows up to invalidate your criticism, without really engaging with what you brought up, and that not by mere logical reasoning, but by applying an ideological believe that thrives for some sort of [holier than you attitude], and just pushes that believe with what ever logical fallacy suits at the moment best.
I don’t get it. What’s the problem with [reasonable discourse] in an anarchist forum?
See, that’s what I mean.
I wrote “authoritarianism” and you ridicule and reframe it to “alarmist diversionary out-group think”. Just as I said:
at least one person shows up to invalidate your criticism, without really engaging with what you brought up, and that not by mere logical reasoning, but by applying an ideological believe that thrives for some sort of unity, and just pushes that believe with what ever logical fallacy suits at the moment best.
and you ridicule and reframe it
Yes that is what I did, to make you aware that you are doing pretty much the same thing.
It’s absolutely different. I criticize authoritarianism and you apply rhetoric manipulation such as ridiculing to make the criticism invalid, without actually engaging on the brought up argument/question.
That is not the same, it is contrary.
Please, with all your intent to lecture me, don’t forget you need that too…maybe first?
No you misunderstood. I used reframing as a way to make you aware that your original post can be pretty easily the understanding of the person you are criticizing as well.
I did not mean to say that you yourself have used reframing.
Edit: Look at what you did here. I literally felt that you were doing what you are complaining about here just to serve your own little turf war against what you call “authoritarians”. That wasn’t even the topic of that thread.
I, too, am very bothered by this. I don’t mind to encounter differing viewpoints, but denial of reality (regarding the crimes of leninism against the people) as a community culture is mentally exhausting. To be fair, i’m equally annoyed by anarchist groupthink labeling any kind of liberal/marxist an enemy to freedom without taking into account they may not have sufficient information to make an informed decision on the matter, and may have been brought to marxism/liberalism (or the corresponding labels) for ideas/concerns of liberty.
Maybe the folks at !hispagatos@lemmy.ml (cc @rek2@lemmy.ml) or Disroot (or other suggestions?) would be interested in running an anarchist lemmy instance?
