• wifom [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    2·
    2 years ago

    The reply to this is an absolute banger

    I’m using liberal in the sense that many leftists who annoy me do, to describe anyone who’s not truly right wing but disagrees with them on something.

    I’ll also that that a lot of what other leftists (and to lesser extent you) say hinges on the assumption that most modern liberals are well versed in politics and are loyal to liberalism. I agree that many people who identify as liberal would probably actually be further left if given more information, especially if it’s not in the condescending way that many leftists are wont to do.

    I don’t fully agree with you about Sanders. I may be wrong but he strikes me as somebody who is in favour of socialism, but knowing that he can’t achieve socialism in short time, is trying to be pragmatic. He won’t manage to create a world ruled by the workers in his lifetime but he makes efforts to improve the lives of workers within this one.

    I don’t believe that we could or even should attempt to throw out the system and institute a socialist one in one motion, we have to transition from one to the other. An attempt to transition too quickly would almost certainly lead to another outcome like the USSR or CCP.

    Finally, I just get frustrated that so many leftists seem to act like liberals are the real enemy, and that anyone they disagree with is a liberal who must be purged from the ranks. Liberals share some socialist ideals, and it is more effective to cooperate over what we can agree on for the time being.

    Point bounced right off their head. Just the perfect demonstration of the differences you outlined between liberal idealism and socialist materialism. They even give their own interpretation of how a liberal revolution ought to happen, totally divorced from history or theory, so we don’t end up with another “bad” outcome.

    • TrashCompact [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      2·
      2 years ago

      I don’t fully agree with you about Sanders. I may be wrong but he strikes me as somebody who is in favour of socialism, but knowing that he can’t achieve socialism in short time, is trying to be pragmatic. He won’t manage to create a world ruled by the workers in his lifetime but he makes efforts to improve the lives of workers within this one.

      God fucking damn it. Sanders did campaign on legitimately demsoc policies in 2020, but if you look at virtually everything that he has done before and since, as well as some of the other things he has said during his campaign (disavowing socialism outside of the Nordic model), he is very clearly a socdem at best.

      The whole fucking point of socialism is that you won’t get there by taking incremental steps from liberalism.

      • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        1·
        2 years ago

        Bernie was the most earnest, good faith attempt at saving the empire the ruling class could ever expect to come from the proletariat. From here on out, they can only expect the gravity shave. By crushing Bernie, they demonstrated that they aren’t even acting rationally, and there is no way you can negotiate with an irrational counterpart.

        • fox [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          1·
          2 years ago

          Bernie’s a center right socdem anywhere in Europe and even that had bougies on TV crying about being executed in Central Park

    • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      2·
      2 years ago

      Finally, I just get frustrated that so many leftists seem to act like liberals are the real enemy, and that anyone they disagree with is a liberal who must be purged from the ranks.

      What part of “liberals support free markets and private property” does this person not understand?

      Mother fucker I do not care if you are Bernie or Mitch McConnell you both hold the same fucking beliefs in supporting private property and free markets. Whatever your other policies are you are an enemy of socialists because these beliefs are utterly incompatible with socialism.

      You are on team capitalism and we are on team socialism. You are team liberal and we are team leftist.