We recently received a message from a concerned Rammy user regarding their instance not having an active admin team.
We have made attempts to contact the Rammy admins, which other instance admins have tried as well, to determine their current status. Due to their admins being absent and their unmoderated content growing in numbers, we will defederate from Rammy. If and when this situation changes, we will be happy to reevaluate our approach. It should be noted that any instances that have abandoned admin teams will be defederated.
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how does that work - I mean, who’s paying the bills for the instance if it’s unmoderated? weird
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What’s that? It’s on somebody’s property. Someone is paying for power, connectivity, and air conditioning.
The host is on vacation and has no backup admin.
Damn, not sure if this is a joke or speculation, but imagine the shit storm they’re gonna come back to. I kinda feel bad for them if they didn’t intend for this to happen and the cleanup they’ll have to do, but at the same time, they kinda shoulda made sure they had a backup, or at least closed sign-ups while they were gone (assuming it wasn’t a medical emergency).
They could be in the hospital or anything if there’s only one.
Definitely a nightmare to come back if that’s the case.
Brings back bad memories of so much work on Ark being undone by griefers…
Speculation, I have no idea what they can up be to
I host my instance in my house on my old PC. I’m going to pay my power bill either way. It actually autopays. So if I had a medical emergency and couldn’t do my admin duties, my instance would keep on going for a very long time.
I don’t have any users on my instance other than me, so I don’t need to worry about this specific thing. But paying the miniscule amount of power that my server consumes would be trivial.
What’s the benefit of running your own instance?
As someone who hosts a small instance, nothing massive…
Honestly, nothing.
The only benefit I get- is full control over weather my instance is up or two. I know for absolute certain that my instance isn’t going to randomly shutdown, and not come back online.
I also have the benefit of having a lot of control over how fast my instance is, and performance optimizations as needed to make it perform as I would like. As such, for me, the performance is outstanding.
With that said,
Basically everything else is downsides.
Having to proactively moderate content originating from your server, is a drag. The moderation tools in Lemmy are absolute dog-shit. Your only option here is to use either 3rd party tools (lemmy-helper), or to just run database queries.
PictRS just keeps growing and growing. pictures gets synced to every instance, and those take up room. Lots of room. PictRS has even less moderation tools then lemmy. If you want to make sure your user aren’t uploading illicit/illegal content, is a major pain in the ass. My solution was to run a few scripts to fetch all of the content, and just run it through some AI scanning software to attempt to detect bad content. But, still, a pain in the ass.
Those attacks you read about here on lemmy world. Those happen to our smaller instances too. Every time you hear @ruud@lemmy.world doing an update here- we are also working on plans for updating the instance. Granted- my small user base makes these upgrades much easier and faster. But- we will have to do these updates. (At least on the plus side, my instances isn’t constantly under a DOS attack, due to a disgruntled member, or due to a pissed off instance which was defederated)
And, lastly, one downside of lemmy- things don’t really go away or get cleaned up. Your database and storage will continue to grow and grow, and grow. Again, to restate, There are basically no moderation or administration tools included with lemmy. You can see reports. You can ban users. And, you can delete posts. Thats about it.
There isn’t an easy way to even list users, comments, posts, or activity happening on your instances… through lemmy itself.
On top of those other issues, lemmy is very chatty, network wise.
Here are the incoming stats, from my “small” instance.
In terms of outgoing, it’s very chatty there too. You will find all sorts of weird and random outbound DNS records.
tldr; Its prob not worth hosting your own instance, unless you just really like playing around with infrastructure, networking, databases, and digging through application issues.
Personally though- I enjoy the challenge, and that is one reason I keep doing it.
good comment, appreciate the insights. This actually shows how much more work has to be done to let Lemmy scale safely…
There are third party solutions which helps a bit.
For example, Lemmy-helper from RocketDerp. https://github.com/RocketDerp/lemmy_helper
But, I’d imagine with this recent growth, its only a matter of time before better administration and moderation tools start appearing in the native GUI.
Thanks for your insight, that was really cool to read about
As someone who has done similar things professionally, I am not envious.
Is /c/bestof a thing yet?
I am sure it exists somewhere. If not, you can always make it!
I don’t need to worry about the instance going down due to attacks, because no one is going to spend their time attacking an instance with one person. They want to attack an instance with everyone.
I also don’t need to worry about defederation drama. If I’m not subscribed to any communities on those problem instances, I don’t even see the problem, and my server doesn’t rehost those problems. I was originally on lemmy.world, and then Beehaw defederate with lemmy.world. But I wanted to see Beehaw’s content. Now I can see both. No one is going to defederate with me because no one on my instance (literally just me) is doing anything that would get us defederated.
I also don’t need to wait for my instance to update to get new features. I literally just update my instance as soon it gets posted to Docker Hub.
I also just find it fun to host my own! I already had my domain name and wasn’t using it for anything. I already had a server ready to go. So why not?
You may still get content from problem posters from those instances coming via other instances that have federated with them. I make some tools for small Lemmy instances, and while I haven’t posted this one yet, Lemmy Defederation Sync might be a good one for you: https://github.com/fmstrat/lds. LCS and LPP are there, too.
I guess I worry about when it happens. I haven’t seen anything like that yet, so I see no point in doing anything about it.
In my case, the major upside is that I make federation choices, not someone else. I prefer to be as openly federated as possible.
Hi bilb, this is blab. I just wanted to say thank you for your approach. You run a wonderful server.
I appreciate that. Always great to hear from you, blab!
Somebody might be getting a nasty AWS bill at the end of the month.
Ok but it could be a raspberry pi chilling in someone’s house using utilities they already pay for anyway.
I imagine a lot of people have jobs where it would be trivial to set something like this up on company resources under the radar and then lose access / get laid off without the company ever knowing it’s running
This is pretty unlikely. Any competent IT department would notice an externally facing project.
I think its more likely that its on a vps or something and they just paid for like a year upfront.
No. It’s very likely. Not every company is run like a FAANG company with everything under a microscope. At your average company, it’s extremely common for individual teams to just have their own cloud service accounts for internal team use, not as tightly controlled as a company’s production cloud services account. I’d argue most of them are very loosely managed by a single person, letting said person do pretty much whatever they want.
And if those accounts have thousands of dollars in AWS credit or something, this could run under the radar for up to 6 months uninterrupted, depending on when the credits expire. Most credits are handed out for free from the cloud service provider with no cost auditing or anything of the like.
I’m in a position where I could do this myself at work with very low risk of getting caught. I just have no interest in doing so, and I’d rather not be fired if I did get caught. But it’s definitely possible.
Possible does not equate to likely. Its a pretty ridiculous scenario to assume when its much more reasonable to suspect that its just being hosted on a stable system and paid in advanced.
At mine, we get our own personal public dev sites which can host whatever code & software we like, alongside the products we develop and their APIs.
Totally possible to set up a lemmy instance and nobody would know, but not worth losing a job over at all if caught.
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That didn’t answer the question at all lol
Maybe it’s not actually abandoned. Just providing plausible deniability that way.
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Rammy is running 0.18.0 which still has the bloated postgres database issue, so storage should be ramping up real fast. It is still technically possible to forget about it, don’t get me wrong. I was merely pointing out it is not the only possibility.
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Could somebody set an instance up on a nes
I think that in order to run Lemmy you’d need at least a PlayStation.
Nah mate, PS2 at minimum, and only with a fresh memory card
No worries, I took no offense.
Technically yes one could, absolutely. No disputing that. Automatic defederation is not a thing afaik, so it would stay federated.
I run a script daily on my instance to defederate suspicious instances (no post but thousands of users for example) but not everybody does.
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Yes, but lemmy isn’t the most stable of software, so unless you set up stuff like automatic database maintenance and restarting lemmy if it becomes unresponsive, it’ll crash pretty quickly.
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It’s not necessarily super expensive for someone who wants to host an instance, whether it’s at home or via server providers. Hosting a GOOD and high-traffic instance might cost more but still any nerd with disposable income can do it if they want.
It got really bad just over the past two days. I’m not sure if it’s a raid from some right wing troll farm, or what it is. Defederation makes things easy though
Apparently it came from Exploding Heads, an instance that Lemmy.world already defederated from.
Yeah I’m seeing those shitters in my feed, guess my instance is federated with them still
Yeah but defed has an issue where it might just lead to bigger echo chambers for the users.
Don’t like this view, defed the instance and so and so forth. I think defed should only be used for last resort action like in this case an awful lot of spam. Just because their political views are left, right or center shouldn’t be used as reason for defed.
What about how these assholes were harassing LGBTQ+ users with hate? Defederation was called for and urgently needed. That behavior is indefensible and breaks site rules.
Not really an issue. If you want to see this content from defederated instances that everyone else finds obnoxious or disruptive, then you can either browse from an instance that doesn’t defederate that content, or spin up your own personal instance to browse from. It’s easy to move to a different instance. Your choice.
What makes it possible right wing and not just a troll farm? Sincerely curious why make the divide and note.
EDIT: I checked it out, I see the issue with Rammy. And yes, there is a lot of spam/hate fest, it’s not that all right wings are extremist just as much as “left wing” isn’t all extremist. We’re all people in the end and imo we shouldn’t let it divide everything further by labels and stereotyping.
Nah, you’re not gonna muddy these waters, the right by far outweighs in terms of extremists.
They’re literally conservative religious people. It isn’t rocket science just look at the Middle East
Muddy what waters? Maybe see more of my replies for context.
Who are we talking about “They’re literally conservative religious people”, as in the rammy trolls or everyone right leaning? Because I already agreed the 20secs I saw the homepage it was unmodded, uncensored crazies.
Where does the middle east come in here, you say it like I’m already supposed to know. I also said, I block news and politics, left other social networks because of all the politics.
I started this as in, why divide and basically make tribes like “Anyone in a different party is bad”. And I never said left or right was worse, I said I’ve had the bad luck from coming across both but that don’t mean all left or all right is all bad…
Sure I can clarify!
So when you said “why does it have to be a right leaning and not some other side” and then said in your edit that not all of one side is bad - it eludes to your point being (from what I understand) “it wasn’t right to assume it was conservatives”
I’m arguing that they are largely responsible for extremism and are likely correlated to strict conservative religious upbringings. I then provided an example of the Middle East and terrorism in general correlating (in this case directly) with strict, dominant religious upbringings (I made this last term up, I just mean religions that expressly condone other religions)
Could you link where I said “why does it have to be a right leaning and not some other side” such as you quoted, I didn’t mean to put it that way, because my point is I hate sides, especially bad apples poisoning the whole barrel (left or right). What I said was:
“What makes it possible right wing and not just a troll farm? Sincerely curious why make the divide and note.”
And in regards to my edit, I explained in one reply that I’m new here (https://lemmy.world/comment/2127411). And now I see I probably should’ve added that in my edit as well that I was coming at this literally being fresh to lemmy with no history and trying to understand why ppl were bashing all right wing with this group. After this reply https://lemmy.world/comment/2126263 I had more background on the fact that it is a known group that does this often.
However, I have still defended that correlating a bad group (as I agreed with multiple times) that is part of a large group makes the whole group bad, I don’t believe is a good way of looking at it imo.
It’s not necessarily going to be an accurate judgment but it is likely that you will be correct if predicting (that means purely predicting, not taking any real action or indirect action, only guesses) which is what the commenter you responded to was doing.
Generalization when used to prejudge someone’s character and taking action, especially serious action is very bad. But predicting the responsible party of an openly hateful and vile event based off previous events is just fine. It should not ever be labeled as fact without evidence however.
Don’t worry about being new, it’s all good we’re just havin a discussion. The quote I did originally was supposed to be by understood summary of what you were saying but I only said that for the second point I made and didn’t go back to fix it - sorry about that
Nah, call the alt-right extremists out for what they are. Tankies too.
If you’re a reasonable conservative, you shouldn’t feel called out by condemnation of the extremists.
I didn’t look to much into it. I don’t want to see that sort of content.
Though not many people the right are trolls, the trolls are very loud. And on Rammy.
Yeah, I don’t blame you. It didn’t take more than 20 seconds on the homepage for me to leave. Those posters are by far extremist, conspiracy nuts.
Thank you for the update, seems like a reasonable approach
Unfortunate but very much necessary to stop the spread of their hatred. This is why it’s important to have a team of admins, so that it’s less likely that the person running the server doesn’t just disappear one day and they can continue maintaining it even if the main person isn’t there. Maybe if you’re an individual instance you can’t afford to hire a team of people, but you could get a group of friends together and have all of you work together to run it, think of it like a group passion project it’s important to make sure that something like this doesn’t end up abandoned otherwise it can cause problems for others if people start abusing it.
I know a lot of people are in doubt about how bad it is, but I went there and I looked at it and it’s honestly terrible worse than the Donald on Reddit (if anyone can remember that) we don’t want to rehost that kind of stuff on this server, we don’t want to be associated with those kinds of people, it’s not worth it. They can still have their free speech on their platform, just not on our server and we don’t have to put up with it.
It’s interesting that they have their own instance, but can’t stand the fact that they got defederated, and have to keep finding ways to get that sweet attention they crave.
Question here. If a user suscribed to world wants to keep seing content from that instance, cant he just suscribe to some subs over there? I’m still trying to figure that part out. I’m on ml but can see some content from world.
No, you will not see content from Rammy on LW. If you want to interact with both you’ll need to have an account on an instance that federates both. I’m sure there are some out there, and if not starting your own is an option.
And this, I feel, is one of the biggest issues with Lemmy…and unfortunately one that I could easily see being its Achilles Heel and ultimate undoing as a viable, sustainable model in the long term.
I think it’s one of the best things about it.
neigh. I think its one of the best.
Want ot make sure your instance is up, and is predictable and federated? Heres a guide
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Roll your own
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Dont troll or be a dick and you wont get deferated. Bigger instances have better things to worry about
As it sits things like the downtime, the porn spam to random@kbin, the federation drama have left me largely unaffected. I get to see what I want based on my subs and nothing more. If someone is trolling me I can even ban them and still see content, without their comments or contributions.
Im not reliant on a large corp to decide im worthy. I get to have downtime on my clock. etc.
Indeed. As long as you have a DNS name available it’s pretty easy to roll an instance, lemmy-ansible will do the work for you.
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That’s not what they asked though.
The question wasn’t that self-centered, it was asking if a user from an instance that defederated from another instance could still access content from the defederated instance through a direct manual subscription.
Fair enough!
Never even heard of it, but good looking out!
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Good
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No, no, no. Clearly Rammy needs the enlightened guidance of Dot World. We must anschluss Rammy into the Greater Dot World.
So much drama I see on lemmy in one month than reddit in 10 years.
Time for me to leave Lemmy.world for good.
Are we at an airport?
Airplane to Fuckville leaving at 9am.
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Neither the person who contacted you was a real user of that instance, nor their “concern” was legitimate.
Congrats. You got successfully manipulated. And opened yourself up for further future manipulations.
what are you talking about? 2 seconds on that instance and youll see hate speech and bigotry. this wasnt even mentioned in this post, only that they are defederating due to a lack of an admin team. personally, i would agree to defederating for either of these reasons. in this case we have both. if you dont see a problem with that instance as it is currently, you are part of the problem and should leave too.
The instance in question was practically dead before this stupid thread gave it attention.
I’ll bet you money that concerned user didn’t exist 3 day ago.
Instance admins should learn how to be smarter, and not give manipulators small wins, alas, they will come back for bigger ones.
