Not sure if this is a good idea but as a european I found this American debate to be one of the most ideological and shocking from both sides. Of course guns alone don’t cause that, Swizerland and Finnland have tons of them in private hands but they have some kind of social system. It’s all of your insanity, from the mental health over total poverty to fucking easy access to really fucking dangerous guns, there is no easy answer because none of this is good and all of it causes violance!
“However, of the 86 countries where mass public shootings have been identified, the US ranks 56th per capita in its rate of attacks and 61st in mass public shooting murder rate”
Defensive gun uses outnumber illegal gun uses. I should get shot? Wait for the police to never arrive because of my neighborhood? Wait for them to shoot me because they got confused and get a medal for it?
Y’all are really good (bad) at pointing out the problem but your solution always ends up being, “send armed goons into people’s houses to make sure they got rid of their property we don’t like.”
You know how many countries have a fuck load of guns and like almost no fascist death brigades? Fucking most of them. The fact that we have 1.1 guns instead of .6 per person does not, in fact, explain gun violence when the exact same percentage of the country owns guns.
There can be more than one problem with our nation at a time.
We have a gun problem, but we also have a fascist problem. There a different solutions to both, neither of which have to be as hyperbolic as you claim.
I’m a gun owner myself. I got my first gun when I was 13 and was taught how to properly care for it and use it.
I enjoy shooting guns as a hobby. I have taken dozens of friends shooting over the years and taught them how to properly enjoy firearms.
But we as a nation have a gun problem.
The solution isn’t some wild, absolute ban in all guns. There are plenty of simple, common sense solutions that can move us into a healthier place. There are plenty of loopholes that can be closed, better, mandatory background checks, removing weapons from those who commit domestic violence, cooling off periods, mandatory gun safes, etc…
I have seen so many wildly irresponsible gun owners on ranges and private property. I’ve seen people walk onto live ranges, loaded weapons pointed at other people, I’ve nearly been shot myself by a dumb kid with a .22.
When I say we have a gun problem, I don’t want to just strip everyone’s guns away. I want to look at the real problems and work to ensure that the easiest flaws are dealt with.
If gun safes were mandatory, it could save countless children who die playing with their parents firearms. If domestic abusers had to surrender firearms, countless partners and spouses would still be alive today.
Don’t want to lose your guns? Don’t beat your wife. It’s not complicated. I don’t trust someone who casually employs violence against loved ones to responsibly use a firearm.
Mandatory education to even use a firearm, just like a concealed carry, would go a long way to help out. We license people to drive cars, why can’t we expect at least that same, bare minimum for guns? CDs
no, you think they use knives instead because homicides are so much rarer there that knife attacks are much bigger news. The US has more knife violence than those countries too.
Think for a second how defensive gun use could possibly outnumber offensive use. What are they defending against if there isn’t also offensive gun use? You pulled this stat completely out of thin air like all your opinions on guns.
Youve never heard anyone suggest to send in armed goons to get rid of property.
There’s only one country with a fuck load of guns, the US, and it has a ton of police homicides.
So what? Add another question to the background check “are you a Nazi?” because the “are you a terrorist?” question should already take care of that one, so it seems to be working really well.
What about how I can just gift a gun to a family member? Or maybe how no one has followed up on me since I’ve purchased a gun, maybe I’m a crackpot now. People change.
Responsible gun ownership is impossible to enforce, sure my shit is locked up in a safe, but no one knows that and it isn’t required. No one comes around to check that it is safely secured, no one comes around to check that I haven’t fallen down a QAnon conspiracy rabbit hole, no one comes around to check that I’m mentally sound and don’t have any anger problems.
Ammo sales aren’t tracked either, so sure I have a reasonable amount of ammo but I could have enough to cause serious problems as no one would know.
So really this comes down to two solutions right? Take away guns, or spend a fuck ton of money to regulate sales, registration, send therapists to people’s homes to evaluate their mental health periodically, track ammo sales, install biometrics on guns so that only the owner can fire it and as evidence of when the gun goes off who must have shot, install trackers and sensors on gun safes to feed information back to the government to know how often a gun is safely locked away and when it’s not where it is… Etc honestly.
Cool, one state. Certainly not federally, which just means you can go to another state and have it not tracked. It’s certainly not tracked in SC where I live, sure that’s across the country but pick a border state of California and have it not be a tracked sale. We’re back to the problem.
It’s a multifaceted issue, absolutely, and in that you’re partially correct. Guns, though, provide the means to cause as many and as high numbered mass shootings.
So, let’s take a multifaceted approach and: implement common sense gun control measures to make it more challenging for civilians (who are very specifically not a ‘well organized militia’) to purchase weapons of this kind; let’s implement better social medicine programs that include mental health services; and let’s also address class warfare, racism, sexism, and attacks on the LGBTQ, minority, and immigrant communities and the degradation of the separation of church and state (which is extremely in favor of the Christian religion instead of recognizing that our population is multi-religion and/or degrees of agnostic or atheist).
The system as it is is built to continue to either break us or cause strife at our level… so that they can continue to keep run our rights into the ground to the benefit of their wallets.
Don’t ignore the means by which a thing happens merely to address the causes, especially in bad faith so as to redirect the message in favor of protecting your outdated and misinterpreted ‘Right to Bear [sic] Arms’ over other’s Right to fucking live without being shot by a nutjob.
Edit: I am a gun owning liberal who is also in the armed forces. Just to provide some background to my above statements.
Take your “As a Veteran…” argument and cram it. I’ve seen more ignorant POGs running that line to get internet credit than I care to remember. Your opinion carries no more weight than anyone else’s and that most definitely includes regular civilians.
Wow, dude (or dudette). You’re seriously jumping to conclusions there. But, you’ve absolutely shown your cards as being a troll here in the discussion. Thank you for taking the time to clarify your position.
If you didn’t want to be insulted you shouldn’t have been insulting…Sir. Interfacing with the public should have been covered somewhere in your ROTC program.
I’m so sick of seeing the Nazi nutcase violence problem framed as a way to take away the guns I have because of the Nazi nutcase violence problem.
Can we fucking deal with the actual issue with mass shooters? It’s not guns. It’s not mental health. It’s fucking Nazis.
Not sure if this is a good idea but as a european I found this American debate to be one of the most ideological and shocking from both sides. Of course guns alone don’t cause that, Swizerland and Finnland have tons of them in private hands but they have some kind of social system. It’s all of your insanity, from the mental health over total poverty to fucking easy access to really fucking dangerous guns, there is no easy answer because none of this is good and all of it causes violance!
Its guns
I don’t think this one was a Nazi.
“It’s not guns” Says the only country where this regularly happens
“However, of the 86 countries where mass public shootings have been identified, the US ranks 56th per capita in its rate of attacks and 61st in mass public shooting murder rate”
Good point. North Korea doesn’t have mass shootings, we should be more like them.
A nazi without a gun is just another shitheel racist loudmouth WITHOUT A GUN.
Fuck off with your goofball shit.
Dude, there are other countries with fascists and they don’t have mass shootings the way we do. The only honest answer is guns.
They use bombs and knives instead!
Or ask Norway if they use guns, too.
Defensive gun uses outnumber illegal gun uses. I should get shot? Wait for the police to never arrive because of my neighborhood? Wait for them to shoot me because they got confused and get a medal for it?
Y’all are really good (bad) at pointing out the problem but your solution always ends up being, “send armed goons into people’s houses to make sure they got rid of their property we don’t like.”
You know how many countries have a fuck load of guns and like almost no fascist death brigades? Fucking most of them. The fact that we have 1.1 guns instead of .6 per person does not, in fact, explain gun violence when the exact same percentage of the country owns guns.
There can be more than one problem with our nation at a time.
We have a gun problem, but we also have a fascist problem. There a different solutions to both, neither of which have to be as hyperbolic as you claim.
I’m a gun owner myself. I got my first gun when I was 13 and was taught how to properly care for it and use it.
I enjoy shooting guns as a hobby. I have taken dozens of friends shooting over the years and taught them how to properly enjoy firearms.
But we as a nation have a gun problem.
The solution isn’t some wild, absolute ban in all guns. There are plenty of simple, common sense solutions that can move us into a healthier place. There are plenty of loopholes that can be closed, better, mandatory background checks, removing weapons from those who commit domestic violence, cooling off periods, mandatory gun safes, etc…
I have seen so many wildly irresponsible gun owners on ranges and private property. I’ve seen people walk onto live ranges, loaded weapons pointed at other people, I’ve nearly been shot myself by a dumb kid with a .22.
When I say we have a gun problem, I don’t want to just strip everyone’s guns away. I want to look at the real problems and work to ensure that the easiest flaws are dealt with.
If gun safes were mandatory, it could save countless children who die playing with their parents firearms. If domestic abusers had to surrender firearms, countless partners and spouses would still be alive today.
Don’t want to lose your guns? Don’t beat your wife. It’s not complicated. I don’t trust someone who casually employs violence against loved ones to responsibly use a firearm.
Mandatory education to even use a firearm, just like a concealed carry, would go a long way to help out. We license people to drive cars, why can’t we expect at least that same, bare minimum for guns? CDs
no, you think they use knives instead because homicides are so much rarer there that knife attacks are much bigger news. The US has more knife violence than those countries too.
Think for a second how defensive gun use could possibly outnumber offensive use. What are they defending against if there isn’t also offensive gun use? You pulled this stat completely out of thin air like all your opinions on guns.
Youve never heard anyone suggest to send in armed goons to get rid of property.
There’s only one country with a fuck load of guns, the US, and it has a ton of police homicides.
Wait haven’t I heard fascists say “give me all your guns before”?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument
The fact that the narrative has to be defended with a Wikipedia article says it all
So what? Add another question to the background check “are you a Nazi?” because the “are you a terrorist?” question should already take care of that one, so it seems to be working really well.
What about how I can just gift a gun to a family member? Or maybe how no one has followed up on me since I’ve purchased a gun, maybe I’m a crackpot now. People change.
Responsible gun ownership is impossible to enforce, sure my shit is locked up in a safe, but no one knows that and it isn’t required. No one comes around to check that it is safely secured, no one comes around to check that I haven’t fallen down a QAnon conspiracy rabbit hole, no one comes around to check that I’m mentally sound and don’t have any anger problems.
Ammo sales aren’t tracked either, so sure I have a reasonable amount of ammo but I could have enough to cause serious problems as no one would know.
So really this comes down to two solutions right? Take away guns, or spend a fuck ton of money to regulate sales, registration, send therapists to people’s homes to evaluate their mental health periodically, track ammo sales, install biometrics on guns so that only the owner can fire it and as evidence of when the gun goes off who must have shot, install trackers and sensors on gun safes to feed information back to the government to know how often a gun is safely locked away and when it’s not where it is… Etc honestly.
And again, I’m a gun owner.
They are in California, have been since 2019.
Cool, one state. Certainly not federally, which just means you can go to another state and have it not tracked. It’s certainly not tracked in SC where I live, sure that’s across the country but pick a border state of California and have it not be a tracked sale. We’re back to the problem.
It’s a multifaceted issue, absolutely, and in that you’re partially correct. Guns, though, provide the means to cause as many and as high numbered mass shootings.
So, let’s take a multifaceted approach and: implement common sense gun control measures to make it more challenging for civilians (who are very specifically not a ‘well organized militia’) to purchase weapons of this kind; let’s implement better social medicine programs that include mental health services; and let’s also address class warfare, racism, sexism, and attacks on the LGBTQ, minority, and immigrant communities and the degradation of the separation of church and state (which is extremely in favor of the Christian religion instead of recognizing that our population is multi-religion and/or degrees of agnostic or atheist).
The system as it is is built to continue to either break us or cause strife at our level… so that they can continue to keep run our rights into the ground to the benefit of their wallets.
Don’t ignore the means by which a thing happens merely to address the causes, especially in bad faith so as to redirect the message in favor of protecting your outdated and misinterpreted ‘Right to Bear [sic] Arms’ over other’s Right to fucking live without being shot by a nutjob.
Edit: I am a gun owning liberal who is also in the armed forces. Just to provide some background to my above statements.
Take your “As a Veteran…” argument and cram it. I’ve seen more ignorant POGs running that line to get internet credit than I care to remember. Your opinion carries no more weight than anyone else’s and that most definitely includes regular civilians.
Wow, dude (or dudette). You’re seriously jumping to conclusions there. But, you’ve absolutely shown your cards as being a troll here in the discussion. Thank you for taking the time to clarify your position.
If you didn’t want to be insulted you shouldn’t have been insulting…Sir. Interfacing with the public should have been covered somewhere in your ROTC program.