Look, I actually have to spend my time around Americans. I dislike them probably more than a lot of people who say stuff like in [https://www.reddit.com/r/TankieTheDeprogram/s/eHww4UALHm](this thread). But it’s not out of lack of trying.
But that’s besides the point. No other country’s people gets treated this way. And no, I’m not going to say I’m more oppressed than people in the global south or whatever. In fact a lot of psychological problems result from the fact that I’m privileged to be in the global north.
But Americans are so often…dismissed. That’s the only term i can come up with. But everyone talks about it in such idealist matter. They always talk individuals or idealism or whatever. The closest to material analysis is “the proletariat’s material conditions are closer aligned to the imperialist Bourgeoisie.” But that doesn’t just apply to Americans.
But, look. Why doesn’t any other people get treated this way? Genuinely. I don’t think Stalin sat down and said “well Germany lost a major world war and went through multiple economic crises and still hasn’t had a socialist revolution. So obviously it’s a lost cause, kill all of them.” Japan and South Korea are never treated this way, despite being very arguably in similar boats. And if we want to talk about material conditions, what about Indonesia or Iran or Cambodia or so many other nations? They haven’t had socialist revolutions yet despite their material conditions, so does that mean these people are useless treatlerites too?
I’m sorry. I know, again, we’re in the imperial core, we’re privileged. I don’t know what part of my mentally ill brain it is, but it’s just that the logic completely fails for me and that gives me anxiety, because reasons. Not just that, but the actual oppression of the communist and self determination movements here are also just ignored.
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L
“If you’re homeless just buy a house” type of energy.
So true, bestie, exactly what I meant.
This is not a serious argument. Lots of people don’t have the means to simply up and leave. There is also value to continuing to fight from inside the belly of the beast. If nothing else, those on the inside can do far more damage to the machinery of empire through sabotage and direct action than those from outside can do.
This does however take the willingness to take great risks and put your life and what little is left of your freedom on the line. It takes a recognition that a) change through reform is fundamentally impossible in the core and social democratic concessions serve the purpose of pacifying and bribing the population with the spoils of imperial violence, and b) that a revolution in the core will not be possible until conditions get much, much worse, and until then you are simply a “man on the inside” for the revolutionary forces in the global south whose duty it is to agitate the imperial core population against their own government, to sabotage as much as possible the machinery of empire and chip away at its power to suppress revolutionary and anti-colonial movements in those places where most of the revolutionary potential exists right now.
With all due respect, come back to me when the American left will actually become something threatening. Other comments in this thread already explained how there is no real movement that can do real or any damage at all.
The “American left” as a whole is non-threatening to the empire by design. But there is potential for groups such as Palestine Action to form and operate clandestinely in the imperial core.
I understand the importance of internal agents who can serve as sabotage. I am willing to listen and understand, what exactly is the potential of these groups? Are they arming themselves? Are they organizing militians or building encrypted networks?
It’s a learning process. As the state’s repression increases and the illusion of being able to achieve change peacefully dissolves, groups will have to learn to adopt more sophisticated methods and more militant methods.
People will respond to the change in material conditions.
I hope. I’m thinking I probably need to get more urban, but financial constraints and age deterioration are seriously messing with my creative solution process. But I seriously need to leave the Deep South because regular work hours turned out not to be for reasons I’ve discussed elsewhere. Also our jobs market is decimated.
It is definitely easier to organize in more densely populated areas.
Yes, I’m working on it, just currently at an impasse, seeking alternate routes.
I hope that you are right. I also hope that whatever few righteous people America still has, I hope they won’t let themselves be consumed by the vile selfish culture of that kingdom of evil. This whole thread exists because one of them feels like they aren’t getting anough respect from the rest of us(no disrespect to OP), while the struggle is never about that. American people are immoral and consumed by individualism and greed, I wish all of you that remain free from that rot the best.
https://freedomnews.org.uk/2024/03/29/palestine-action-permanently-shut-down-tamworth-elbit/
https://www.jpost.com/defense-and-tech/article-866862
Appreciate it
I really wonder, what do you know about government suppression of the left in America?
It’s great and sustained, rendering the whole thing useless with no threat to anything of status quo. I am aware of the situation, this is why my stance is what it is.
Why not? Let’s see
1.Simultanously I get called a coward for wanting to leave
2.More importantly, I don’t have the money or support to leave. I can barely afford a plane ticket let alone everything else required, and that’s not including friends and family I would really prefer not to leave behind.
I understand, truly. But let me tell you that no serious communist would call you a coward for leaving for a place where actual movement is possible. I didn’t mean to call you a “criminal”, if that’s how it turned out to be, but the environment you’re in simply doesn’t allow for a proper movement. It has been decades, close to a century now, and nothing. And for the money, also understandable. But I genuinely believe this is your real chance at doing something right if you are serious. I’m not telling you to get up and leave right this moment, but trying to do it eventually would be great. I myself am planning to do it and doing everything I can to achieve this goal.
Alright. And it’s not just you. It’s a lot of times that I feel like I get tugged in many directions. One tells me to stay, another tells me to go, one says im a hero in the belly of the beast and another says I’m not even proletarian. I try to figure it out myself, i really do, but it really just doesn’t make sense to me, either side. Maybe it’s part autophobia, part splitting, I don’t know. I just know I don’t trust myself enough to just decide.
I understand that it might be overwhelming, I know and have faith that there are good people in America who want real change, I’d like to assume you are one of them. But I am a deeply religious person who looks at that country with a historical analysis, and I can only conclude that there is something deeply rotten and evil with that culture, you living among it has to have seen it. This is why I’m begging you this: don’t waste yourself there if you are genuine. Many people tried and will keep trying to break it from within, but all I can see in the future is the global south rising up and defeating the evil once and for all. I don’t know if you will listen to me, but I have faith that at least some of what I said touched you. We don’t hate you personally, believe me, but it’s hard to seperate individuals from such a disgusting evil as the United States of America.
deeply unserious
If you say so
we don’t have any fucking money how are we going to move to a different country???
I’m not an American with your material privelege, and I don’t have any money either, and yet I’m trying. I have a moral conviction to do so, my close friend in America has as well. We are trying because we see it as a just and only plausable cause that will benefit everyone eventually. You can dismiss it as unserious all you want, but my lived experiences, faith and personal analysis led me to this belief.
And this is why you were called unserious. Because you answered “literally how can I do this?” with “idk, i can’t either, but you suck if you don’t anyway because of faith”
Please stop being a clown and putting words in my mouth, this is not a good look for you. Do you want me to hold your hand and explain how to do this? Find like minded people and mutually support each other, work and slowly but surely gather money for it like I do, or try using strategies immigrants use. At least try to understand me.
I didn’t put any words in your mouth. You said you’re “trying” which is another way of saying you can’t. You then literally said that “faith” led you to this belief, which is that not moving is completely morally unacceptable (even though you yourself have not managed it)
Your beliefs are self-contradictory and thus deeply unserious.
If you in turn was serious about this conversation, you’d notice that faith was one of three reasons that led me to my belief. And I will clarify that my initial “trying” comment was made because I thought that your question was antagonistic and rhetorical, I’m sorry for the confusion. And I’m not sure how me being on my active journey to achieve my goal somehow invalidates my views just because I haven’t achieved it yet.
i did leave, and had to come back because other countries also have immigration laws.
now i’m extremely lucky not to be homeless. i would leave again if i could but i can’t even afford rent consistently. It is not feasible or possible for everyone to leave, and that’s true of every country except a couple of those euro microstates where everyone actually is wealthy.
I’m sorry this happened to you. I’m not dismissing that people can have difficult situations, this is why I’m not bashing anyone for not packing their things immediately and leaving this once. All I’m saying is that it should be a goal, how long does it take to reach that goal is another topic. We seemingly have an understanding here, so I’m not sure why you called it unserious.
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@DashRendar@lemmygrad.ml The sidebar of this comm literally says “hostility is allowed” and that the only line is reactionary crap or explicit threats. Why was this user banned?
There is no active mod for this community, so one of the admins removed the comment and assigned a one-day temp ban. As far as I know, none of us have greenlit any community to add an exception to rule 3.
Probably should simply close the community if its sole purpose gets people banned (randomly whenever an admin takes personal issue with a user)
Even if we were more lenient with rule 3 in this community, a comment consisting of nothing but an image of a pig taking a shit is just pointlessly inflammatory
Again, the sidebar of this comm pretty explicitly states that “pointlessly inflammatory” is the goal and purpose of this comm. If that’s not acceptable on the site, the comm should be closed.
It doesn’t.
“Hostility is allowed” doesn’t mean “the purpose of this community is to be pointlessly inflammatory”. Replying with an image of pig shit isn’t “challenging” any of the arguments in this thread. Sure, there’s nothing explicitly stating that it’s not allowed, but the instance rules apply to every community, and such a comment would be removed anywhere else on this instance.
Ultimately, if you dislike the concept of this community, feel free to block it.
Utterly bizarre thing to say when you’re the one arguing against the concept of the community and I’m the one arguing for it.