In some cases they can match and even pass humans, as there have been some research showing it, and even in the cases where it can’t yet do so, having workers using AI could still increase productivity to the point that humans aren’t as necessary for completing the jobs. And if the big corporations don’t start using it startups are likely to arrive to do such jobs, like callcenters which already have AI systems that can do it to some extent and might be fully automated by the time the infrastructure for using AIs in such areas appears.
No, but the AIs that already exist that can use calculators and other tools to solve problems are AI. They might not yet be AGI yet but as new systems using LLMs and other techniques develop it shouldn’t take long until they can identify a problem, calculate a solution and act on it by themselves.
But they aren’t identifying problems, they’re algorithms. These aren’t true “AIs” and never will be. They’re just designed to give a response based on input, like a calculator. They might get better at giving that response, but the way the current tech is headed they won’t ever actually create an “AI” just a mechanical Turk designed to look like it passes the Turing test.
Here is a simple example of what AI can already do. It might not be possible to do it all yet in a sinlge system yet, but with current tech as it gets deploy the following should be possible.
*First AI system receives a message from someone that there is a job to be done somewhere. By using it’s “intelect” and a program it sends a robot to solve the problem.
*The robot is an AI system that has AIs that identify the enviroment around the robot, another that works with programs to creat a route, another that actually drives the robot with human like movements on which it was trained.
*The robot finds a path until the problem and then it visually identifies what is what, a 3D model of the enviroment is made and an AI identifies a solution all based on the videos it was trained and the things that all robots have experienced.
*Then the AI that moves the robot interacts with the enviroment in the way that the was deemed to solve the problem and the AIs that were looking at the problem make sure it is fixed.
All these things can already be done by LLMs/AIs to varying degrees and looking at the progress from this year alone it seems likely that all of these things will be doable soon (this decade) and then it’s just a matter of producing more AIs/robots.
But that isn’t AI. That’s my point. Is it automation? Yes. Absolutely. But it isn’t thinking for itself, it is following instructions. It has no ability to deal with problems outside of the areas it is “trained” in. It can’t invent solutions to problems, only follow the instructions for solving a problem it has been given. It doesn’t “think” any more than any other program does.
I’m writing a visual novel game right now. In this game, the characters interact with the player, they respond to questions, have their own preferences and make their own decisions. But no one would think a video game character is actually thinking for themselves. They’re just lines of code made to emulate a conversation with a person.
And you should be very cautious about accepting any claims of “this amazing sci-fi tech will be here within the decade” because the newspapers have been making those claims for as long as we’ve had sci-fi. Someone else in this thread mentioned AI being hyped up for the past 60 years, and that entire time it’s been “just around the corner.” For 60 years. Don’t fall for marketing hype and buzzwords. Are robotics getting more advanced? Yes, they are. Automation is increasing as well. These are not the same thing as actual artificial intelligence though.
But it isn’t thinking for itself, it is following instructions.
And humans don’t follow instructions??
Our body and our enviroment are constantly prompting us to do things and we act on it. We need to eat so we will find a way to keep that need satisfied. We want to have fun and will try to find something fun. If it’s too hot or cold we will try to deal with it.
It doesn’t look diferent from a robot in a factory, for exemple, that always wants to do a job, finds a job by investigating its enviroment with photo recognition AI system or by being asked by someone or something to do a job, and then it finds its way to the job and tries to think of a solution to solve it based on how it has done other jobs before and if it doesn’t work it tries to come up with new solotions just like a human would.
If you are such a simple, uninteresting person that your existence has the same amount of richness and variety and spontaneity as a piece of industrial equipment, that’s just sad. I’d recommend finding some friends who aren’t online, who talk about topics other than robotics.
Robots don’t “want” anything, they don’t have any thoughts, they are just code operating a piece of equipment. They cannot deviate from that code, even if their designers put a bunch of buzzwords around them like “Machine Learning” to try and sell more units.
I’m not saying that AI can’t exist, just that people are building a shiny new type of forklift and you’re acting like they’re Data from Star Trek. We don’t look at what something could be, maybe, perhaps, as some indeterminate date in the future that is always a “decade away.” We look at what they are for and what they are designed to do. These do not have problem solving skills. You put a person in an environment with a problem they’ve never faced before and they will try to find a way around it. You put a robot forklift in the same scenario and it spills hundreds of boxes across the factory floor because the programmer didn’t think to code in a solution to that problem.
I’m not trying to be insulting, but it really sounds from your comments here that you don’t know how to program, that you don’t know anything about robotics beyond something you saw in a youtube video or Popular Science magazine. And you clearly know nothing about human psychology and neurology, if you’re comparing an automated assembly line to a person’s ability to function. I knows this sounds very disparaging and probably quite insulting, but you really haven’t made a case for anything here, except to insist that it “could be” something amazing, but every single grifter promises the same thing to their victims, I think you’ve been swindled, and possibly even bamboozled by techbros trying to sell a magical solution to all of humanity’s problems.
A common part of this particular techbro grift is to try and simplify human behaviour to try and make their claims about AI more reasonable sounding, they try to simplify humans to basic machine input > output, but humans aren’t like that. If we were, there’d be no society, no one creating anything except what is required to survive. A robot cannot paint a painting, it can only create a collage of paintings made by humans, and a factory robot cannot plan or organise, it can only follow instructions to do those things.
I’m not trying to be insulting, but it really sounds from your comments here that you don’t know how to program, that you don’t know anything about robotics beyond something you saw in a youtube video or Popular Science magazine.
I’ve used AIs (mostly LLMs) and follow discussions of what others are doing with and about extrapolations of what can be done with the newer LLMs/AIs by integrating then into systems.
If you are such a simple, uninteresting person that your existence has the same amount of richness and variety and spontaneity as a
piece of industrial equipment, that’s just sad.
A common part of this particular techbro grift is to try and simplify human behaviour to try and make their claims about AI more reasonable sounding, they try to simplify humans to basic machine input > output, but humans aren’t like that.
First of all, engineering and production are interesting things. Second of all, isn’t what you said basically saying that “the material reality is useless for humans as we are superior beings unconnected to the enviroment”?
We have hormones and other things that will push us to do certain things. We can also have plans and try to act on then, including how our plans relate to the enviroment and what our bodies want, potentially even trying to overcome what we want and can.
I think you’ve been swindled, and possibly even bamboozled by techbros trying to sell a magical solution to all of humanity’s problems.
Automation can be a great tool to save us from the need to work, but to get that we need to use automation by ourselves to get such a future. And since most discussion on the subject are by people who aren’t communists I wanted to start a conversation here to see if there are people that are keeping up with the monthly, and even weekly advances coming out in the AI, robotics and related fields to see what people think…
They may be able to match and pass humans on specific tasks, but most actual jobs require an element of being able to balance workloads, solve problems and think analytically, humans will still have to play a role for a long time, though we will gradually grow more and more dependent on AI which may(probably will) lead to a few layoffs
In some cases they can match and even pass humans, as there have been some research showing it, and even in the cases where it can’t yet do so, having workers using AI could still increase productivity to the point that humans aren’t as necessary for completing the jobs. And if the big corporations don’t start using it startups are likely to arrive to do such jobs, like callcenters which already have AI systems that can do it to some extent and might be fully automated by the time the infrastructure for using AIs in such areas appears.
A calculator can perform mathematical tasks much faster than a human, does this mean a calculator is an AI?
No, but the AIs that already exist that can use calculators and other tools to solve problems are AI. They might not yet be AGI yet but as new systems using LLMs and other techniques develop it shouldn’t take long until they can identify a problem, calculate a solution and act on it by themselves.
But they aren’t identifying problems, they’re algorithms. These aren’t true “AIs” and never will be. They’re just designed to give a response based on input, like a calculator. They might get better at giving that response, but the way the current tech is headed they won’t ever actually create an “AI” just a mechanical Turk designed to look like it passes the Turing test.
Here is a simple example of what AI can already do. It might not be possible to do it all yet in a sinlge system yet, but with current tech as it gets deploy the following should be possible.
*First AI system receives a message from someone that there is a job to be done somewhere. By using it’s “intelect” and a program it sends a robot to solve the problem.
*The robot is an AI system that has AIs that identify the enviroment around the robot, another that works with programs to creat a route, another that actually drives the robot with human like movements on which it was trained.
*The robot finds a path until the problem and then it visually identifies what is what, a 3D model of the enviroment is made and an AI identifies a solution all based on the videos it was trained and the things that all robots have experienced.
*Then the AI that moves the robot interacts with the enviroment in the way that the was deemed to solve the problem and the AIs that were looking at the problem make sure it is fixed.
All these things can already be done by LLMs/AIs to varying degrees and looking at the progress from this year alone it seems likely that all of these things will be doable soon (this decade) and then it’s just a matter of producing more AIs/robots.
But that isn’t AI. That’s my point. Is it automation? Yes. Absolutely. But it isn’t thinking for itself, it is following instructions. It has no ability to deal with problems outside of the areas it is “trained” in. It can’t invent solutions to problems, only follow the instructions for solving a problem it has been given. It doesn’t “think” any more than any other program does.
I’m writing a visual novel game right now. In this game, the characters interact with the player, they respond to questions, have their own preferences and make their own decisions. But no one would think a video game character is actually thinking for themselves. They’re just lines of code made to emulate a conversation with a person.
And you should be very cautious about accepting any claims of “this amazing sci-fi tech will be here within the decade” because the newspapers have been making those claims for as long as we’ve had sci-fi. Someone else in this thread mentioned AI being hyped up for the past 60 years, and that entire time it’s been “just around the corner.” For 60 years. Don’t fall for marketing hype and buzzwords. Are robotics getting more advanced? Yes, they are. Automation is increasing as well. These are not the same thing as actual artificial intelligence though.
And humans don’t follow instructions??
Our body and our enviroment are constantly prompting us to do things and we act on it. We need to eat so we will find a way to keep that need satisfied. We want to have fun and will try to find something fun. If it’s too hot or cold we will try to deal with it.
It doesn’t look diferent from a robot in a factory, for exemple, that always wants to do a job, finds a job by investigating its enviroment with photo recognition AI system or by being asked by someone or something to do a job, and then it finds its way to the job and tries to think of a solution to solve it based on how it has done other jobs before and if it doesn’t work it tries to come up with new solotions just like a human would.
If you are such a simple, uninteresting person that your existence has the same amount of richness and variety and spontaneity as a piece of industrial equipment, that’s just sad. I’d recommend finding some friends who aren’t online, who talk about topics other than robotics.
Robots don’t “want” anything, they don’t have any thoughts, they are just code operating a piece of equipment. They cannot deviate from that code, even if their designers put a bunch of buzzwords around them like “Machine Learning” to try and sell more units.
I’m not saying that AI can’t exist, just that people are building a shiny new type of forklift and you’re acting like they’re Data from Star Trek. We don’t look at what something could be, maybe, perhaps, as some indeterminate date in the future that is always a “decade away.” We look at what they are for and what they are designed to do. These do not have problem solving skills. You put a person in an environment with a problem they’ve never faced before and they will try to find a way around it. You put a robot forklift in the same scenario and it spills hundreds of boxes across the factory floor because the programmer didn’t think to code in a solution to that problem.
I’m not trying to be insulting, but it really sounds from your comments here that you don’t know how to program, that you don’t know anything about robotics beyond something you saw in a youtube video or Popular Science magazine. And you clearly know nothing about human psychology and neurology, if you’re comparing an automated assembly line to a person’s ability to function. I knows this sounds very disparaging and probably quite insulting, but you really haven’t made a case for anything here, except to insist that it “could be” something amazing, but every single grifter promises the same thing to their victims, I think you’ve been swindled, and possibly even bamboozled by techbros trying to sell a magical solution to all of humanity’s problems.
A common part of this particular techbro grift is to try and simplify human behaviour to try and make their claims about AI more reasonable sounding, they try to simplify humans to basic machine input > output, but humans aren’t like that. If we were, there’d be no society, no one creating anything except what is required to survive. A robot cannot paint a painting, it can only create a collage of paintings made by humans, and a factory robot cannot plan or organise, it can only follow instructions to do those things.
I’ve used AIs (mostly LLMs) and follow discussions of what others are doing with and about extrapolations of what can be done with the newer LLMs/AIs by integrating then into systems.
First of all, engineering and production are interesting things. Second of all, isn’t what you said basically saying that “the material reality is useless for humans as we are superior beings unconnected to the enviroment”?
We have hormones and other things that will push us to do certain things. We can also have plans and try to act on then, including how our plans relate to the enviroment and what our bodies want, potentially even trying to overcome what we want and can.
Automation can be a great tool to save us from the need to work, but to get that we need to use automation by ourselves to get such a future. And since most discussion on the subject are by people who aren’t communists I wanted to start a conversation here to see if there are people that are keeping up with the monthly, and even weekly advances coming out in the AI, robotics and related fields to see what people think…
They may be able to match and pass humans on specific tasks, but most actual jobs require an element of being able to balance workloads, solve problems and think analytically, humans will still have to play a role for a long time, though we will gradually grow more and more dependent on AI which may(probably will) lead to a few layoffs