Another way you could achieve this is by hiring bakers of equal skill level and splitting all the tasks evenly among us!

The question becomes who determines the size of the stake. Without equal ownership in the business isn’t the relationship between me and the other workers more akin to an owner -> employee relationship as opposed to a co-ownership? If I’m the only one who can make execuitive decisions, determine the rates of profit sharing, choose who gets hired and who gets let go, it doesn’t seem that much different than how things might look in America today, for instance.

Suppose the contract I draft up is for $5 an hour and 1% of the excess profits, split evenly among all non-owners, I see no difference than hire things look like in Starbucks.

Thanks for the response! Would the idea then be that over time, the other two workers would eventually have to be given equal ownership over the operation?

As an asside, regarding the unanimous minus one vote policy as well, it seems like all you’d need to ensure that you never got removed was to ally yourself with one other person who would promise to never vote against you.

Thanks for the response! In my scenario I consider ownership to be the ability to make executive decisions surrounding the business. This could range from what products we choose to sell, what the sign on the front says, who we buy our ingredients from, how much we charge customers for, how much we spend on cleaning supplies, the color of the wallpaper, when we decide to look for new employees, ect…

If I’m the sole worker at my operation, I have full authority over all these things!

Is not the tractor itself is the product of labour? Someone put in the work to build it, and I compensated them with the product of my own labour. I don’t think the people who constructed the tractor were entitled to my labor any more than someone who compensates me for tilling their field is.

Thanks for the comment! I agree that owning ten tractors that I don’t personally use VS leasing out my one personal vehicle in the off season feels different, but I’m not exactly clear on where the line is drawn and by what standards it is.

Isn’t me being the sole person who can decide who can and can’t lease my equipment and at what rate / how much compensation I expect to receive for the privilege of doing so kind of make me a boss already, even if I don’t formally employ anyone in a business?

I think we both understand that some form of compensation is fair, as use of the equipment will gradually degrade it’s quality, presents an inconvenience to me (no option to use it on the days it’s gone), and an increased risk of the tractor becoming inoperable (catching fire, catastrophic failure, falling off a cliff, ect…) all of which as the sole owner of the equipment I am expected to absorb the cost of.

I’m also sure that whomever I’m leasing the equipment out to understands what fair compensation is and won’t likely take me up on an offer if I ask for too much. (Half of whatever is harvested with my machine! Mwahaha!)

But I can also see a case where perhaps the equipment is so much more efficient that over time, choosing not to lease from me will result in me being four or five times more productive than you are, creating a big resource disparity between us and giving me extra bargaining power over you.

Thanks for your response! I’m imagining in my scenario, perhaps the tractor doesn’t exist until someone decides that one is desired and then a cooperative of fabricators builds one in exchange for what its workers consider to be fair compensation for their labour. As a farmer, perhaps I agree to exchange several years worth of grain for one of their tractors. As the individual who grew and harvested the grain personally, wouldn’t it make sense saying that I have a greater right to “own” the tractor over my peers who maybe chose to use their share of grain to purchase different things?

Perhaps they didn’t feel like a tractor was as necessary a use of resources as say a silo or mill would be? Or maybe collectively we agreed to purchase those things and it was with only the resources out of the whole I have been permitted to expend for personal use that I purchased the tractor with - others spending it on home improvements or a nicer car for example?

Thanks for your response! As I understand, even under marxism I still have the ability to use the product of my labour to buy things for my personal use? Like if I want to own a painting or piece of art, I can exchange the products of my labour with an artist for the products of their labour.

Regarding ownership, personal property still exists on some level, right? I don’t want other people wearing my clothes or sleeping in my bed for instance. I might not even want people driving my personal car if it’s something that I collected, built, or restored myself.

That is somewhat correct. It may not necessarily be the case that the tractor is impossibly out of reach of others. It’s possible that everyone could afford a tractor but did not deem it necessary to make the purchase at the time that I did, spending the money on other equipment instead, like a mill for instance.

Thanks for the response! I guess what I’m wondering is if owning the tractor and leasing it out could still exist alongside collective ownership?

If I already have the means of purchasing the tractor for myself, I might not want to enter into a cooperative agreement with others and deal with the overhead that comes with it - especially if it were a scenario where I originally purchased it solely as a tool for myself. Let’s say it were a simple tool like a scythe, collective ownership might seem like too much hassle when it would be more convenient if everyone just had their own.

Thanks for your response! If I understand correctly, you’re saying the state / my community should collectively hold a vote to see if me leasing out the tractor is exploitative, and maybe prevent me from doing so or appropriate it for the collective benefit?

It was also my understanding that markets still exist under socialism in some level?

Thanks your response! I understand that distributed ownership and cooperatives exist as an option, even in existing capitalist societies. What I do wonder about is to what extent private ownership would still be permitted to exist?

Maybe in my scenario nobody else in the community thought the tractor was a priority investment at the time the purchase was made. Or perhaps instead of just me owning the tractor, it’s instead owned by my cooperative and we’re wondering if we can lease it out to other cooperatives?

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