You tear yourself apart!

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should!

That’s bigots for you. They’ll cut off and throw community members into the sacrificial fire for the sake of their panicked feelings, because treating people decently is just not one of their baseline values.

I can’t help but project an old version of myself on you. I can’t imagine defending 4chan unless I was actively using it a lot… It did used to be basically my only internet community, so I understand being particularly fond of the cesspool.

However, I don’t actually understand your reactions here. Why are you defending it when it seems like 4chan itself wouldn’t even go this far except maaaybe as a limp wristed attempt at an excuse when something truly horrific happens because of them? I genuinely don’t think I understand

Like, to currently vilify it is easy, just take a screenshot of pol. I remember looking pre2016 and seeing HYPERPARTISANSHIP all caps everywhere. It’s an anonymous forum with people discussing plans to make life shittier for various groups, essentially at all times… And before pol it was b (my era was back when pol was a boring place, I don’t know the current state of any board, but I know some of the history and what motivates some normies of my niche who fuck with it)

I just don’t understand the downplaying of it, normal people participate in shit ways on 4chan specifically because of the anonymity. The anonymity is why it’s such a cesspool in the first place. It’s toxic keyboard warrior syndrome to the extreme.

This ignores that 4chan is widely known as the cesspool of the internet and attracts those types. It’s like going on Hexbear and being surprised at the communists. People gather where their banners are. Shit attracts shit. This reduction is apt.

Sure it kind of does some good ish things sometimes, but more often than not, it’s just an internet mob internet mobbing. That’s essentially all it is: chaos waves constantly crashing back in on itself. Any good that comes from it is incidental at best.

Also, defending 4chan on the wider Internet is a little odd, 4chan itself revels in its shit reputation…

That’s fair. Part of my job is converting non-technical users into technical users by teaching them things like problem solving approaches that are supposed to help them teach themselves how to learn whatever they need to actually do their job. I don’t teach them what to do, I teach them how to learn what to do.

I agree that you gotta meet people where they’re at, but I try to teach them how to poke around any code repo site, like GitHub or gitlab, so they can use it. Usually I point them to the docs and start by pointing out my favorite parts so that they have somewhere to kind of start by themselves, but it is a skill set that can be practice, or at least I am convinced it is.

I’m not very good at this part of my job, but also, no one is, so it’s not a bad thing, I just want to do better. I guess I never thought of it from a truly non-technical and not wanting to be technical perspective before. This could be solved by a secondary interface designed specifically for this kind of user. It would not allow code download or interaction, but it would allow for issue logging. I might put this idea in my ever growing project list because it sounds like it would be a useful product…

I’m interested in where the limits to expectations lie here. I’m not trying to be a jerk when I say this next part but I do worry I may come off that way but I’m trying to figure out the boundaries of what a “reasonable” expectation is so I can make tasks like this easier for my own team (completely unrelated to this project but it’s essentially the same problem).

Is it not reasonable to expect people to type into a search engine something like “GitHub help” and then poke around in the links that come up?

… Well I’ll be damned, I tried my own method before commenting, and the first link that comes up is a red herring, how obnoxious. I was hoping it’d be a link to the docs, not GitHub support. I guess I just answered my own question: no that is not reasonable.

As a technical user, I am still at a loss for how to help a non-technical user in an algorithmic way that will work for most non-technical users x.x guess I’ll be thinking about this problem some more lol

(I guess I’m rambling but I’m gonna post this anyways in case anyone wants to chatter about it with me)

I mean, I’m coming from a background sceptical of the law of attraction because it’s just repackaging having goals to sell self help books. How do you become a nuclear scientist? Step 1) step 2) step 3) etc.

The law of attraction is new speak used to sell known principles to people, in my opinion. Manifestation, in my opinion, is the same thing but coming at it from a crystals vibe rather than the self help vibe of the law of attraction.

I don’t mean to be a jerk about it, hence all the in my opinions, but as I said, I am very skeptical of the usage and utilization of the concept of manifestation.

All that said, you’re not wrong. The principle is valid and it does work, but it’s mustering the discipline to stick to those goals, that’s the secret that everyone is looking for. Idk I feel like I’m starting to ramble, do you have any points/counter points to any of this?

Oh yeah, I just wanted to complete the picture for those who might not be able to assume all the steps, it’s by no means a fault in anything you said. I’m just adding on because I don’t mind the low hanging fruit discussions, personally. By all means, feel free to skip it, that’s what people with interests like mine are here to fill for! Don’t waste your time being stuck in boring explanations on the internet when it’s virtually guaranteed someone else will think it’s fun!

That second one… Isn’t that manifestation? Hard agree with you there, usually people promoting manifestation are simultaneously saying “you can imagine anything and make it real” and in the same breath are trying to sell you something that you evidently aren’t able to imagine into your reality for free.

On the other side, technically, even breathing is enough to satisfy the goal of “changing the universe”. That bunch of molecules would not be moving through the universe like that if it weren’t for your consciousness (but few appreciate sentience at that atomic of a mechanical level lol. I just think it’s a massive glazed over step in going from mind to city/culture/science)

Now that’s a characterization I can get behind!

Ah I get that, like the frustration of a sociological paper pointing out a societal issue but offering no steps on how to solve it due to fixes being out of scope (utterly infuriating lol).

I still think the criticism is valid, but I do think I agree in that the criticism could be more constructive… But I still think laying the foundation of the argument, so to speak, is still constructive even though it may not go as far as one may need for it to cross the threshold back into polite…

I am still convinced this is a knee jerk feeling issue more than anything truly being amiss, but I have been wrong before. What do you think?

I agree it probably is a definitions thing, I’m very pedantic sometimes and it feels like my definition of constructive is much more optimistic/wider/encompassing than yours. That doesn’t mean that my definition is right or that your position is wrong though, that’s just what I think is going on here.

The first step to correction is understanding there is a problem in the first place. This is quite constructive, it may just not feel like it is because it’s framed combatively.

You’re doing it wrong is the phrase that lets teachers teach at one of the most basic levels.

The public is essentially a self teaching teacher, so this is just the process of public correction happening. It may look/feel like public shaming, and it may be if they’re going too far, but that is the mechanism that I think is playing out here.

Does that framing make it any more palatable to you or does it still seem unnecessarily disrespectful?

History is written by the victors, and that is what a win looks like… Not saying it’s deserved, just why that happened that way.

That’s a fair perspective, but most people strive for as few clicks between users and their targets as possible. Forcing a user to become semi-tech-competent by sending them on a fetch quest to figure out their os, while not an inherently bad thing, does work against this overall goal…

Idk, it’s like education vs service industry goal setting, that’s all I’m trying to get at here lol

Edit: plus, there’s no guarantee that it will remain just the big 3 for forever. There was a time before Linux, maybe we’ll see a time after windows… Unlikely, but one can dream lol

Tldr; you’re ineffectual and always will be until you drop your holier than thou ways :)

Ahh yes working with what works is the same as liking genocide. Very astute. You do know you sound like a petulant child right now, yeah?

You’re the type of kid who can’t answer the trolly problem because, in the end, someone gets hurt. There’s nothing wrong with feeling the way you do, but being a judgemental whiny removed about it is not how you get people to work together.

Tbh at this point I’m convinced articles like this are just life support trying to claw back as many Musk dick riders back into normies.

It’s good work, and I think it should be done, but yeah, this is exactly what a sane person would expect to see given all the context.

It’s not news to most, but to the audience that I think this sort of thing is going after, it genuinely might be news to them.

Not that this article alone would get anyone to drop their fanboy bs, but it seems like it’s intended to be a tool to facilitate that. As for why it’s here specifically in world news, probably in case anyone wants to use it as a facilitation tool for anyone in their lives. Can’t use what you don’t know exists and all that lol

I also have ADHD and a chattery mind! Running works for you, so defs don’t stop! But I have an issue with the meditation issue, and I think you think that way because they didn’t tell you that it’s totally normal for your mind to wander, the only difference is that your mind will wander more. You’re doing nothing wrong, that’s just what minds do, even neurotypical ones, just to a lesser degree than what you experience.

All you have to do is guide your mind back to focusing on whatever meditation you’re doing with an endless kindness and compassion that you would have for like some adorable puppy or baby that’s trying to wander away. They don’t mean to do wrong, but they also can’t be reasoned with. you just have to guide them back to the right place.

With all that said, if it’s still a bunch of contrived hippie sounding bs to you, feel free to disregard! Running works, and it’s also not like this is super important for you to try out or anything like that.

I think meditation does have legit benefits, I just don’t think it’s often taught with that compassion angle that I think makes it possible for people with ADHD to do it. And even if what I’m doing is not “real” meditation, whatever it is, it’s an extended moment of niceness.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

Most software engineers also have to actively maintain and add features to their finished project, and those aspects change a lot about how the problem can be approached.

I failed to take into account why might I have not been effected by tech debt despite occasionally creating it before commenting. Will have to make sure that filter gets a bit stronger lol

Ah yeah, that would be a worry, except I forgot to mention that most of the code I work on usually gets thrown away after like 6 months. Makes tech debt not have nearly as big of an impact on me.

We do have a longer lasting code base that the little widgets I make run off of. That has a much more strict requirements to ensure tech debt is not introduced specifically so we don’t end up in that sort of a position.

That said, and yet we couldn’t even keep it out of our own code base. So yeah, I think my original comment is just wrong because I forgot all the ways tech debt actually has effected me in the past and how my industry’s project cycle is so short term that i rarely have the opportunity to run into tech debt that I caused in a problematic way…