Why YSK: I’ve noticed in recent years more people using “neoliberal” to mean “Democrat/Labor/Social Democrat politicians I don’t like”. This confusion arises from the different meanings “liberal” has in American politics and further muddies the waters.
Neoliberalism came to the fore during the 80’s under Reagan and Thatcher and have continued mostly uninterrupted since. Clinton, both Bushs, Obama, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Johnson, and many other world leaders and national parties support neoliberal policies, despite their nominal opposition to one another at the ballot box.
It is important that people understand how neoliberalism has reshaped the world economy in the past four decades, especially people who are too young to remember what things were like before. Deregulation and privatization were touted as cost-saving measures, but the practical effect for most people is that many aspects of our lives are now run by corporations who (by law!) put profits above all else. Neoliberalism has hollowed out national economies by allowing the offshoring of general labor jobs from developed countries.
In the 80’s and 90’s there was an “anti-globalization” movement of the left that sought to oppose these changes. The consequences they warned of have come to pass. Sadly, most organized opposition to neoliberal policies these days comes from the right. Both Trump and the Brexit campaign were premised on reinvigorating national economies. Naturally, both failed, in part because they had no cohesive plan or understanding that they were going against 40 years of precedent.
So, yes, establishment Democrats are neoliberals, but so are most Republicans.
This is misleading. Neoliberalism is inherently capitalist, not socialist/communist.
All left-right political terminology is inherently subjective, so you can argue neoliberalism is promoted by center-left parties as long as you’re defining the center as being to the right of that. Since this post seems to be about the United States, that center is already pretty far to the right as measured from, say, Denmark (picked a name out of a hat). I think the bigger argument here is about US-defaultism rather than whether or not it’s OK for Americans to describe things in terms that relate to their political climate.
EDIT: I think the comment I’m replying to is confusing people. Replying solely to the words “center-left” makes it seem like the OP described neoliberalism as center-left, which people are objecting to. However, the OP only used the phrase center-left once, to say that American center-right and center-left parties have enacted neoliberal policy. As a statement of fact, the Democrats have enacted neoliberal policy. By American standards, the Democrats are regarded as center-left. This does not mean the OP was saying “neoliberalism is a center-left ideology.” There is an argument to be made here that the Democrats are not a center-left party, but I think the issue is getting confused here because people are reacting as if the thing being described as “center-left” is neoliberalism, when it’s actually the Democratic Party.
What you said makes zero sense. Neoliberalism is distinctly NOT a left wing ideology. To even try and associate them makes you look like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Can we not bring this energy over from Reddit? You’re arguing with something I didn’t even say. We both agree, neoliberalism is not a left wing ideology. I didn’t say that, the OP didn’t say that, I don’t know who you’re even talking to with that remark.
What the OP said is that American center-left and center-right parties have both been proponents of neoliberalism. The only part of this that’s remotely controversial is whether it’s accurate to describe any American political parties as “center-left”. From a global perspective, you can easily argue that that’s not accurate. Go for it. From an American perspective, there are parties who are to the left of the (American) center. The Democrats are both center-left from the American perspective and proponents of neoliberalism. To restate: That does not mean that neoliberalism is a center-left or any other kind of leftist ideology. It only means what it says.
It’s not a left-wing ideology, but in the US there are no left-wingers in the federal political stage (Occasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders are about as left as Democrats go, and they’re considered radical left by center-Dems).
That is to say those of us with dreams of social programs and election reform are considered radical left in the US, even though we’d be centrist in the EU.
Interestingly, according to retired CIA analysts, without those social programs and election reforms, the US is destined towards civil war, but the current genocide politics might make that evident.
I don’t think it’s possible for one’s definition of leftwing and rightwing to float just like that if one’s politics are anchored in principles, though I can see how the tribalist unthinking parroty crowd will follow their political tribe to wherever the tribe “leaders” take it hence end up so deep rightwing (whilst thinking they’re lefties) that at times they parrot fascist shit with just a few words changed.
Personally, all it takes for me is to examine what party leaders do and say in light of the “the greatest good for the greatest numbers” principle to see if a party is at least paying lip-service to leftwing ideals or not and it’s quit interesting how so many self-proclaimed leftwing parties seem to have a long list of priorities far above and beyond abiding by said principle.
For example, in light of that principle it would make sense to do what’s “good for business” when the businesses in question are good for people, but those two things are completelly detached in today’s policy making which is purelly about maximizing outcomes for businesses and people can (and do) get screwed - something clearly not abiding by the second part of the “greatest good for the greatest number” principle. Ditto for the whole obcession with “GDP Growth” - a country’s GDP going up is completelly useless if said growth doesn’t actually help most people.
It’s not subjective - the definitions of words has been eroded on purpose. This is orwellian destruction of language and it works
Of course it’s subjective. The terminology of the left-right political divide originally referred to 18th-century France. In the 21st century, we’re usually not defining the political center of a nation by how it compares to the French Parliament of 250 years ago. The center moves over time and space, and the left and right are relative to that center.
I do think this comment thread is confusing people, though, as noted in an above edit. For clarity, nobody is saying neoliberalism is a center-left movement.
The very concept of putting political spectrum in one-dimensional axis is purposefully broken. Left vs right doesn’t tell you jack shit about the actual ideologies. Life is more complex than this
Dude, you quoted a single word out from OP and somehow even got that wrong. Which makes me think you’re being deliberately obtuse.
OP wrote about “center-left” – the American spelling. So it’s clear that OP was discussing neo-liberalism from an American point of view. And in American politics, neo-liberalism is absolutely a component of center-left politics.
Sorry if this sounds angry. I get frustrated at the constant reframing of American politics under international standards. Yes, Americans lack a true leftwing in our politics. That’s well established at this point. Nitpicking language around “American left” vs “international left” derails real discussion and is not helpful.
I don’t know. If you ask me. I think asserting that everyone but you was wrong. And that you are correct because of a special America/western only definition is a height of the toothless and absurdity.
Politics is not relative like your hands. They are defined and understood. Just not by westerners.
In this case, OP is clearly talking about American politics. That is what I am saying.
I was calling out a reply that purposefully distorted OP’s language, the language used in this specific post. The discussion of the American political compass versus the international political compass is beside the point. And it’s obtuse and unhelpful to derail a perfectly good discussion with insults aimed at OP’s clearly American perspective.
If OP was specifically talking about American politics. American politics are twisted and distorted. Calling out OP was the correct thing to do. Defending him again requires it being misleading and representing the narrow twisted definition of American politics as the full spectrum. You may not like it when people point out that you are ignoring a whole section of politics. But that’s on you
There is politics. American politics as a term is obtuse navel gazing that doesn’t really exist. As an American the political system as they wish it were defined doesn’t encompass me at all. I’m an American. This American politics BS is damaging. On purpose.
And your reflexive, intensive need to assert that it exists should give you pause. To question why you feel that you have to insist that it does.
You think center-left is socialist/communist?
America is dripping out of every letter of that comment, lol
They don’t “think it”, as if they’re confused, they’re implicitly defining “left” as socialist, or at least anti-capitalist.
That’s not really reality tho is it?