Two things, one: this standpoint epistemology stuff is bullshit. The Soviet Union was deeply revisionist for most of its existence thanks to Khrushchev’s ideological coup, and I’m sure there were leftists back then smugly saying “It’s cute that you think you understand how to do Marxism better than the Soviets” when met with this obvious fact. Two: The article you linked me highlights that, within China, there is very much dispute over how to do Marxism and people who object to the CPC and trying to do their own labor organizing being suppressed. Using “the Chinese” as some imaginary ideological monolith of enlightened Marxists who agree and are willfully collaborating is fantasy to the point of Orientalism.
The obvious fact is that China is a socialist country led by a communist party, and every serious analysis clearly shows that this is the case. Meanwhile, even the revisionist Soviet Unions was a far superior system to what we have in the west today.
Finally, the fact that there is vibrant political debate in China isn’t some gotcha. It’s an evolving social system and people are figuring things out as they go. That’s how real life works.
Using “the Chinese” as some imaginary ideological monolith of enlightened Marxists who agree and are willfully collaborating is fantasy to the point of Orientalism.
That’s a really cute straw man that has nothing to do with anything I said. What’s actually being said to you is that people living in a socialist country understand how to apply socialism in practice than western LARPers.
Meanwhile, even the revisionist Soviet Unions was a far superior system to what we have in the west today.
Hey, if you’ll bite the bullet that China’s revisionist, I won’t have further objections. I never said they were inferior or even merely equal to America, they are clearly superior and a historically progressive force in the world. We agree on that part, it’s just not what I was arguing
Finally, the fact that there is vibrant political debate in China isn’t some gotcha. It’s an evolving social system and people are figuring things out as they go. That’s how real life works.
You are leaving out of this “vibrant political debate” that a broad side of it is getting repressed.
What’s actually being said to you is that people living in a socialist country understand how to apply socialism in practice than western LARPers.
As you have phrased it, this is a circular argument.
“China is revisionist”
“No, it is socialist”
“How do you know?”
“Because the Chinese [who aren’t being repressed] know better and they say so”
Hey, if you’ll bite the bullet that China’s revisionist, I won’t have further objections. I never said they were inferior or even merely equal to America, they are clearly superior and a historically progressive force in the world. We agree on that part, it’s just not what I was arguing
No, I don’t think China is revisionist. What China is doing is precisely what Lenin advocated with programs like NEP.
You are leaving out of this “vibrant political debate” that a broad side of it is getting repressed.
You keep saying that despite all evidence to the contrary.
And I see you continue to make straw man arguments instead of engaging with what I’m actually saying. Your claim that the Chinese are being repressed has zero basis in reality. So, you just made up an absurd claim then based your whole argument on it.
It’s pretty obvious that you’re just going to keep repeating the same line over and over here, so I don’t think further discussion is going to be productive. Bye.
What was the point of linking the article if the Maoists in it are not legitimate Marxists? Did you get your links mixed up or something, and you meant to link some unrelated article?
It’s the main subject of the article! The whole thing is about the Jasic labor movement with other elements added in as context or because the liberal author has some ax to grind. It’s not some sinister slight of hand that I took a link that you gave no specific commentary for and understood you to want me to see what the article is about. It’s a big-ass article, which part were you hoping I’d know was what you wanted me to see?
Two things, one: this standpoint epistemology stuff is bullshit. The Soviet Union was deeply revisionist for most of its existence thanks to Khrushchev’s ideological coup, and I’m sure there were leftists back then smugly saying “It’s cute that you think you understand how to do Marxism better than the Soviets” when met with this obvious fact. Two: The article you linked me highlights that, within China, there is very much dispute over how to do Marxism and people who object to the CPC and trying to do their own labor organizing being suppressed. Using “the Chinese” as some imaginary ideological monolith of enlightened Marxists who agree and are willfully collaborating is fantasy to the point of Orientalism.
The obvious fact is that China is a socialist country led by a communist party, and every serious analysis clearly shows that this is the case. Meanwhile, even the revisionist Soviet Unions was a far superior system to what we have in the west today.
Finally, the fact that there is vibrant political debate in China isn’t some gotcha. It’s an evolving social system and people are figuring things out as they go. That’s how real life works.
That’s a really cute straw man that has nothing to do with anything I said. What’s actually being said to you is that people living in a socialist country understand how to apply socialism in practice than western LARPers.
Hey, if you’ll bite the bullet that China’s revisionist, I won’t have further objections. I never said they were inferior or even merely equal to America, they are clearly superior and a historically progressive force in the world. We agree on that part, it’s just not what I was arguing
You are leaving out of this “vibrant political debate” that a broad side of it is getting repressed.
As you have phrased it, this is a circular argument.
“China is revisionist”
“No, it is socialist”
“How do you know?”
“Because the Chinese [who aren’t being repressed] know better and they say so”
“How do they know better?”
“Because they live in a socialist state.”
“How do you know?”
“Because the Chinese know better and . . .”
No, I don’t think China is revisionist. What China is doing is precisely what Lenin advocated with programs like NEP.
You keep saying that despite all evidence to the contrary.
And I see you continue to make straw man arguments instead of engaging with what I’m actually saying. Your claim that the Chinese are being repressed has zero basis in reality. So, you just made up an absurd claim then based your whole argument on it.
It’s pretty obvious that you’re just going to keep repeating the same line over and over here, so I don’t think further discussion is going to be productive. Bye.
Literally the fucking article you linked says that those Maoists are being repressed, that’s what the article is all about!
Oh the goal posts are now moving from Marxists being repressed to ultras being repressed.
What was the point of linking the article if the Maoists in it are not legitimate Marxists? Did you get your links mixed up or something, and you meant to link some unrelated article?
The article discusses other things which you ignored since they don’t fit with the narrative you want to craft here. Why are you like this?
It’s the main subject of the article! The whole thing is about the Jasic labor movement with other elements added in as context or because the liberal author has some ax to grind. It’s not some sinister slight of hand that I took a link that you gave no specific commentary for and understood you to want me to see what the article is about. It’s a big-ass article, which part were you hoping I’d know was what you wanted me to see?
Edit: Removed an incorrect tangent