The head of Telegram, Pavel Durov, has been charged by the French judiciary for allegedly allowing criminal activity on the messaging app but avoided jail with a €5m bail.
The Russian-born multi-billionaire, who has French citizenship, was granted release on condition that he report to a police station twice a week and remain in France, Paris prosecutor Laure Beccuau said in a statement.
The charges against Durov include complicity in the spread of sexual images of children and a litany of other alleged violations on the messaging app.
His surprise arrest has put a spotlight on the criminal liability of Telegram, the popular app with around 1 billion users, and has sparked debate over free speech and government censorship.
Telegram has no end to end encryption by default.
Yeah, I’m siding with the French government on this one at first blush. E2EE platforms are a necessary tool for combating government overreach and corporate surveillance. But if you willingly make a platform that’s not E2EE, the idea of users being able to share this vile shit being a “necessary evil” toward the greater societal good completely falls apart. If you 1) have this vile content on your platform, 2) know it exists, 3) can trivially combat it in a targeted manner, and 4) choose not to, then you’re complicit in its distribution.
I have no sympathy for a CEO who tries to dupe their userbase into believing their app is private and then not even take advantage of the one single ethical benefit to the platform not being E2EE.
Not to whatabout it but under this logic we got other "CEO"s who should see a similar treatment.
Will they?
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bootlicker much? would you also be excited if Russia arrests Proton CEO for dubious reasons or is your reasoning based on ideology and tribalism?
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@NegativeInf @scorp if your logic holds then why haven’t landline providers, Gmail, AOL, and ther companies come under the same scrutiny? The fact is all technology can and will be used outside of intended design.
Because they cooperate with authorities? Your phone line info, your email, your Facebook? It’s all a subpoena or search warrant away.
Part of this arrest was due to management not cooperating with the government in the government trying to police dangerous content.
Is that the point here? Telegram is not a messaging app, it have that functionality but it does not revolve around that. And there is e2ee if you enable it. Thanks
But Telegram IS a messaging app? Their motto is literally “a new era of messaging”.
Yes, but it’s not it’s only functionality, unlike signal. Also how is durovs arrest can be justified by saying “telegram aint e2ee”? Signal bros are something else.
I’m just calling out your phrase saying that Telegram is not a messaging app, when it is. That is all.
Also how is durovs arrest can be justified by saying “telegram aint e2ee”?
No one here has said or implied that.
Now do Zuckerberg and Musk
Don’t leave out Spez.
The problem is that those guys comply with the requests from governments.
do you agree with this arrest or are you pointing out the double standards ?
I don’t really understand how he allowed crime. I can commit crime via sms, whatsapp, signal or mail. Does that mean they allow it?
I can commit crime via sms, whatsapp, signal or mail.
But you’re not allowed to
Crime is generally illegal
Against the law at the minimum.
I think the distinction here is that if your phone provider, WhatsApp, Signal or mail carrier is informed that someone is engaging in illegal activity using their service, these entities would comply and give the information they have on you-- be it a lot like SMS or a little like Signal (phone number, registration date).
In the case of Telegram, they’ve been informed countless times that specific individuals are engaging in blatantly illegal activity and unlike the previously mentioned entities, Telegram is refusing to comply with any legal requests.
I believe that’s the situation but if I’m wrong, by all means correct me because this is a very interesting subject.
Thanks, this is the first explanation that’s actually clicked for me.
Presumably Moxie as well since I’m constantly being told that Signal is the most secure e2ee platform.
Telegram holds the keys, Signal doesn’t
That’s right, Signal only holds phone numbers for some unspecified reason.
Not the place
Telegrams moderation leaves a lot to be desired. I’m not saying they should look into or give governments people’s private conversations but I am saying that certain public features of telegram that do allow you to report illegal materials have been used to spread them.
certain public features of telegram that do allow you to report illegal materials have been used to spread them.
I don’t understand, what do you mean? Does clicking “report” on a message not simply send a report to moderators only?
I’m saying that Telegram’s moderators are not moderating stuff they should be moderating and that they have admitted they should be moderating. I know that it’s not their fault, it’s the small size of the team compared to almost a billion monthly active users, but still.
I know that it’s not their fault, it’s the small size of the team
This part is directly Telegram’s fault. If they cannot keep up with their moderation queue then they need a bigger moderation team. Preferably properly remunerated. There are news reports about how Facebook’s sub-contracted moderators work for these extremely shitty companies who track them based on how many reviews a minute they do, and which causes extreme psychological damage to the workers both because of the extreme content they have to see as part of their jobs and the bad working conditions they must put up with.
Yes, basically every corporate social media site needs more moderators. A single person can barely moderate 200K users (cohost), so a platform with 900 million should probably have a trust and safety team larger than 30 or 60 (Durov didn’t confirm it).
I do wonder how much “report” does.
Next up: Discord!
Pretty sure Discord keeps tons of data on their users and readily complies with warrants.
I mean, they shut down tons of Yuzu and Yuzu clone discord servers for Nintendo.
I think they’re already in the good graces of those kind of folks.
Discord does not have this problem. Source: the US government and the issue of massive security breaches by people arguing in some discord chat
It is funny that his bail was a small fraction of his wealth. This situation is tense and uncertain but at least there is something funny about it.
