The false notion that undocumented immigrants affect federal elections has a long history. But this year, due in part to rising migration at the U.S. southern border, the idea could have new potency.

  • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.comEnglish
    16·
    4 months ago

    If you’d like one I’ll give you a goalpost. Prove me wrong and show me a single state where a non-citizen can register to vote, go to a polling place and vote, and then have that vote counted.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144265521/florida-voter-fraud-cases-prosecution-update

    Here’s evidence of someone who was ineligible obtaining a card and attempting to vote, although not an illegal alien. This should show sufficiently that the system isn’t perfect and that people can obtain voter registration when they should otherwise be ineligible.

    https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation

    And here’s evidence of illegal aliens voting and getting caught. This speaks that they’re at the minimum attempts to vote. We can safely assume that we don’t catch 100% of violators. And further don’t necessarily catch those that were successfully able to register without being found out since those would raise much less red flags if they successfully get onto a register in the first place.

    If that’s not enough for you…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/06/truth-about-noncitizen-voting-federal-elections/

    There is scattered evidence of noncitizens voting in federal elections — sometime by mistake (such as erroneously thinking they were eligible while getting a driver’s license) but also with nefarious intent. […]

    A large percentage of the cases took place in North Carolina, where authorities have been aggressive in targeting noncitizen voting.

    So when looked for… States that are aggressive about it find much more. And look at that NC… Almost like the link above now makes a ton more sense.

    In 2022, Georgia announced that it had completed a citizenship review of the state’s voter rolls and discovered that 1,634 people over 25 years had attempted to register to vote even though they were not U.S. citizens. But none had been permitted to register to vote and, thus, had not cast ballots.

    But how many managed to register and then subsequently vote? You really think they got 100% success rate?

    Richman said he found that 1,934 voters (0.43 percent of Arizona voting-age noncitizens) had records that indicated they were not citizens at the time they registered or after registering to vote. There are more than 4 million registered voters in Arizona, so the noncitizen segment would be about 0.04 percent.

    “These sources all align quite well in terms of suggesting that the likely rate of noncitizen registration or attempted registration nationwide is slightly less than one percent” and a voting participation of half a percent, Richman wrote. “I conclude that the incidence of noncitizen participation or attempted participation in U.S. and Arizona elections (through registration or voting) is low, but nonzero.”

    Can we stop claiming that it doesn’t happen? And that there’s some risk involved when they do it? Every article that talks about it downplays it heavily. You can levy fines on illegal immigrants, they’re not supposed to work in the US anyway (and thus good luck garnishing wages), and according to the law deporting them isn’t on the table for attempting to vote illegally (check the second link). The most you can do is incarcerate them… except many states don’t typically like incarcerating non-violent criminals anymore. There is virtually no risk for walking in and casting a vote, even though it is supposed to be illegal.

    • phobiac@lemmy.world
      51·
      4 months ago

      So what you’ve demonstrated is that a fraction of less than 1 percent of voters registering in a few states MAY be non-citizens, a number so small it’s barely a rounding error, and that of that small number of people it seems we catch most of them long before they vote. I do not understand why this issue seems worth the effort you’re putting into it.

      I’ll concede then that it does and has happened. However, I still think you’re going too far by claiming there’s no consequences while literally linking to attempted convictions.

      • jazzup@lemm.ee
        51·
        4 months ago

        However, I still think you’re going too far by claiming there’s no consequences while literally linking to attempted convictions.

        I agree. I think he seriously underestimates the risks. If the person is here unlawfully, they have now caught the attention of the authorities and are more likely to be subjected to removal proceedings. If they are here lawfully, they now become deportable and, even if not removed for some reason, may decrease their chances at obtaining a green card or naturalization, depending on the circumstances. All of that on top of the criminal penalties.

    • jazzup@lemm.ee
      51·
      4 months ago

      and according to the law deporting them isn’t on the table for attempting to vote illegally (check the second link)

      I’ll repeat here what I said to you above in case others didn’t see my earlier comment and think your assertion is accurate:

      Deportation is absolutely a risk for unlawful voting.

      If the non-citizen is here unlawfully, they are always subject to deportation if ICE becomes aware of them, which may happen by referral during a criminal prosecution.

      Even if they are here lawfully, they become deportable if they vote unlawfully per 8 USC 1227(6)(A): “Any alien who has voted in violation of any Federal, State, or local constitutional provision, statute, ordinance, or regulation is deportable.”

      The reason “deportation” is not mentioned in the press release you cite is because removal is a separate proceeding, not part of the criminal proceeding (which is what the press release is about). They have to be convicted of the crime first, and then removal proceedings can be initiated.

      Even if removal proceedings are not brought against them for some reason, they will still potentially suffer consequences for a conviction (in addition to the criminal punishment). For example, unlawful voting may prevent naturalization of a lawful non-citizen under 8 USC 1427 because they do not have the requisite good moral character.

      Moreover, if they falsified documents to vote unlawfully, they may be found to have committed an aggravated felony, which means they face expedited removal proceedings, they can never get a green card, never become naturalized, can not be eligible for asylum, and can never reenter the US. See 8 USC 1158, 1182, & 1228.