I just started my switch to Linux and the only things that don’t work out of the box on my brand new Lenovo laptop are things that have no bearing on the actual use of the device. And frankly, spending hours fiddling to make things work is much more satisfying than spending hours trying to figure out how to stop Microsoft spying on me.
TL;DR there are good and bad things, positives and drawbacks about all OSes, educate, don’t gatekeep.
I have a laptop that runs Windows fine, then installed Linux on it.
The trackpad was not well supported and glitched often, as was the fingerprint sensor. I personally am not going to not use fingerprint because some neck beard says it’s very insecure and blah blah blah, I don’t care. The fingerprint is for me to have any sort of authentication prompt.
Often times, the computer would boot up without recognizing the WiFi adapter (classic).
The DE that I used, Gnome, was riddled with shitty defaults and random weird behavior, also missing settings from the main settings app in Gnome 43! Not Gnome 1 or 2, 43. Isn’t that a bit embarrassing? I’ve used KDE before, I like that one, though I like the aesthetics and simplicity of Gnome, I wish it just didn’t come with removed defaults.
Bluetooth connectivity was hit-or-miss as well, sometimes not getting my device, sometimes not wanting to pair it, etc.
The app store on either Fedora, Manjaro, Ubuntu or PopOS! all had some kind of missing, broken, or unintuitive functionality that seemed quite obvious how it could be fixed, just that I couldn’t be bothered.
Screen sharing with audio doesn’t work on Discord, could not find any 1080p60 streaming software that was free or paid or anything. Scoured all of the internet and GitHub, so I’m not switching.
I could go on. Basically there’s many shitty things about it. There are also loads of things I adore about Linux, like fast boot times, lower RAM and swap usage, less background apps, better extensibility and customizability, great development experience etc. I love Linux. However, it feels like work to actually get it to work sometimes, which gets in the way of most people’s intention to just use the God damn computer for stuff they want to use, and it working.
Let people choose what they want, don’t berate people for not choosing what you like, instead educate on what they may be missing out on, but at the end of the day, respect their decision. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
P.S. My laptop wasn’t a DXFGFH Fuckbook 3938WGT or whatever with a Bluetooth adapter from Jupiter, it was a recent, but not bleeding-edge, ASUS VivoBook.
I have never had any issues getting WLAN, sound, USB or anything to work if i didn’t build on minimal Arch or something super nerdy.
Ubuntu, Debian, Pop!, Mint, all work perfectly well in these regards. Only thing you usually have to do something is for gaming. But even that has become very easy by installing wine and proton. Steam even lets you set force compatibility modes for every game.
Debloating or preparing a clean Windows installation is more of a hassle and requires far more skill and research than setting up a working Linux system. Let alone the growing effort Microsoft puts into forcing users into Microsoft Accounts.
If Linux works for you, Good for you. If Windows works for you, Good for you.
I agree to that, but man, “Linux is too hard to set up” is straight up BS nowadays. And Microsoft and Windows do have many issues that need to be pointed out and criticized.
I originally wanted to argue that you lack knowledge about Linux because educating yourself about debloating tools is actually more effort than I ever needed to put into a basic Linux installation with a regular distro, but then I recognized it’s actually you who’s lacking knowledge about Windows.
Occasional issues with hardware drivers is something that happens with Windows, too. Just last week I set up a server for a client and it took me two days to get all the NICs ready due to driver issues. That shit happens. Occasionally. With both Windows and Linux.
You’re right, no one cares what other people use, but comparing a debloated Windows install with a proper Linux install is just dumb. A debloated Windows install will never be “perfect” or exist without Microsoft bullshit it literally depends on most of it. And I’m not bashing debloating of Windows here. It’s a fair choice if you have to use Windows and want a bit more of a lightweight experience. Personally I use Linux to use more FOSS software, tiling window managers and having in general a better idea of how my system works. And yes you’re right that that’s not for everyone but all I’m saying is that there should be an option besides amputating a shitty anti-consumer OS. At this point people are comfortable using a borked version of an OS whose main business strategy has become collection of personal data.
You used that word in the original comment, I’m only quoting you, hence the quotes. I don’t think there is a perfect OS, but it sure as hell isn’t debloated Windows.
Something that just has a perfect fit and full transparency. Something that is only done on Open Source Operating Systems.
OpenBSD can be seen as perfect because the code base is very strict and securely written. Making it a nearly bug free OS. But I never used it.
Linux Distros that have a large repository to install apps from can be seen as perfect because you cant create a chaos where you dont know how to uninstall things, as everything is installed through the same package manager. Satisfying for updating too.
Something like NixOS, Gentoo or Arch.
I dont see them as the “perfect” but Windows… even debloated. Its still a huge chaos.
What good does a good code base do when it cant run popular games and apps like cod, valorant, siege, league of legends, destiny, adobe apps etc? On windows everything just works even though it is not transparent or open source.
Your windows cant run your android app, IOS app and just doesnt work at all. Hell, I just want to play God of War Ragnarök… Stupid OS. Costs so much and doesnt even run the games and apps I need.
I hope you see yourself how foolish your agument is. “Perfect” doesn’t describe how many apps you currently want to use or love, can run. Especially when this piece of software is deeply hardcoded into an Environment or OS. Even a game developed on Windows may fail to run because the environment is off. You will be very wrong with the statement that “everything just works on Windows” when you will soon buy a specific piece of hardware to start an app because otherwise, it wont trust you.
The topic is about a Perfect OS. Philoshophy of why it may count as Perfect. OpenBSD is an important play here as Microsofts steals its apps for its own convience like ssh and many other standards in Server use. Or the idea of an OS that knows where everything is located and can fully automate itself, etc.
Thr developers of the games choose themselves when an app will run and when not. Or where on which platform. It is out of topic to mention that something is only perfect when you can run your my little pony game.
If you feel comfortable having every behaviour and text send to Microsoft. Go for it.
But arguing that Windows should be the number one because my daddy purchased it when you were small or smth should not be the main argument. Windows is shit and terrible. Its cool that capitalism led to create binaries only for Windows but not even that did not stop Linux from being a strong competitor without tracking and spying.
Especially, this stupid Microsoft OS is not even a one size fits all thing but tries very hard to be one.
Linux may just work too depending on what games you play or what work you do.
What the fuck are you on about saying “having every behaviour and text sent to Microsoft” and “arguing that Windows should be the number one”. He never said that, nor does anyone say that, get your head out your ass.
Wow!! Thanks!
I will try to debloat windows now and then replace all linux installations of mine with your suggestion.
Which filesystem should I use to support paths > 256 characters on Windows?
Also: How can I bind my favorite Applications to my usual shortcuts? Never found that option in the settings.
I recently added windows to a separate drive on my linux machine, when I installed linux everything worked out of the box, meanwhile on windows I had to download the wifi drivers on a separate device and transfer them over to be able to even access the internet
deleted by creator
I just started my switch to Linux and the only things that don’t work out of the box on my brand new Lenovo laptop are things that have no bearing on the actual use of the device. And frankly, spending hours fiddling to make things work is much more satisfying than spending hours trying to figure out how to stop Microsoft spying on me.
…for you.
TL;DR there are good and bad things, positives and drawbacks about all OSes, educate, don’t gatekeep.
I have a laptop that runs Windows fine, then installed Linux on it.
The trackpad was not well supported and glitched often, as was the fingerprint sensor. I personally am not going to not use fingerprint because some neck beard says it’s very insecure and blah blah blah, I don’t care. The fingerprint is for me to have any sort of authentication prompt.
Often times, the computer would boot up without recognizing the WiFi adapter (classic).
The DE that I used, Gnome, was riddled with shitty defaults and random weird behavior, also missing settings from the main settings app in Gnome 43! Not Gnome 1 or 2, 43. Isn’t that a bit embarrassing? I’ve used KDE before, I like that one, though I like the aesthetics and simplicity of Gnome, I wish it just didn’t come with removed defaults.
Bluetooth connectivity was hit-or-miss as well, sometimes not getting my device, sometimes not wanting to pair it, etc.
The app store on either Fedora, Manjaro, Ubuntu or PopOS! all had some kind of missing, broken, or unintuitive functionality that seemed quite obvious how it could be fixed, just that I couldn’t be bothered.
Screen sharing with audio doesn’t work on Discord, could not find any 1080p60 streaming software that was free or paid or anything. Scoured all of the internet and GitHub, so I’m not switching.
I could go on. Basically there’s many shitty things about it. There are also loads of things I adore about Linux, like fast boot times, lower RAM and swap usage, less background apps, better extensibility and customizability, great development experience etc. I love Linux. However, it feels like work to actually get it to work sometimes, which gets in the way of most people’s intention to just use the God damn computer for stuff they want to use, and it working.
Let people choose what they want, don’t berate people for not choosing what you like, instead educate on what they may be missing out on, but at the end of the day, respect their decision. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
P.S. My laptop wasn’t a DXFGFH Fuckbook 3938WGT or whatever with a Bluetooth adapter from Jupiter, it was a recent, but not bleeding-edge, ASUS VivoBook.
I have never had any issues getting WLAN, sound, USB or anything to work if i didn’t build on minimal Arch or something super nerdy.
Ubuntu, Debian, Pop!, Mint, all work perfectly well in these regards. Only thing you usually have to do something is for gaming. But even that has become very easy by installing wine and proton. Steam even lets you set force compatibility modes for every game.
Debloating or preparing a clean Windows installation is more of a hassle and requires far more skill and research than setting up a working Linux system. Let alone the growing effort Microsoft puts into forcing users into Microsoft Accounts.
I agree to that, but man, “Linux is too hard to set up” is straight up BS nowadays. And Microsoft and Windows do have many issues that need to be pointed out and criticized.
deleted by creator
I originally wanted to argue that you lack knowledge about Linux because educating yourself about debloating tools is actually more effort than I ever needed to put into a basic Linux installation with a regular distro, but then I recognized it’s actually you who’s lacking knowledge about Windows.
Occasional issues with hardware drivers is something that happens with Windows, too. Just last week I set up a server for a client and it took me two days to get all the NICs ready due to driver issues. That shit happens. Occasionally. With both Windows and Linux.
Edit: Autocorrect corrected
deleted by creator
You’re right, no one cares what other people use, but comparing a debloated Windows install with a proper Linux install is just dumb. A debloated Windows install will never be “perfect” or exist without Microsoft bullshit it literally depends on most of it. And I’m not bashing debloating of Windows here. It’s a fair choice if you have to use Windows and want a bit more of a lightweight experience. Personally I use Linux to use more FOSS software, tiling window managers and having in general a better idea of how my system works. And yes you’re right that that’s not for everyone but all I’m saying is that there should be an option besides amputating a shitty anti-consumer OS. At this point people are comfortable using a borked version of an OS whose main business strategy has become collection of personal data.
deleted by creator
You used that word in the original comment, I’m only quoting you, hence the quotes. I don’t think there is a perfect OS, but it sure as hell isn’t debloated Windows.
Something that just has a perfect fit and full transparency. Something that is only done on Open Source Operating Systems.
OpenBSD can be seen as perfect because the code base is very strict and securely written. Making it a nearly bug free OS. But I never used it.
Linux Distros that have a large repository to install apps from can be seen as perfect because you cant create a chaos where you dont know how to uninstall things, as everything is installed through the same package manager. Satisfying for updating too. Something like NixOS, Gentoo or Arch.
I dont see them as the “perfect” but Windows… even debloated. Its still a huge chaos.
What good does a good code base do when it cant run popular games and apps like cod, valorant, siege, league of legends, destiny, adobe apps etc? On windows everything just works even though it is not transparent or open source.
Your windows cant run your android app, IOS app and just doesnt work at all. Hell, I just want to play God of War Ragnarök… Stupid OS. Costs so much and doesnt even run the games and apps I need.
I hope you see yourself how foolish your agument is. “Perfect” doesn’t describe how many apps you currently want to use or love, can run. Especially when this piece of software is deeply hardcoded into an Environment or OS. Even a game developed on Windows may fail to run because the environment is off. You will be very wrong with the statement that “everything just works on Windows” when you will soon buy a specific piece of hardware to start an app because otherwise, it wont trust you.
The topic is about a Perfect OS. Philoshophy of why it may count as Perfect. OpenBSD is an important play here as Microsofts steals its apps for its own convience like ssh and many other standards in Server use. Or the idea of an OS that knows where everything is located and can fully automate itself, etc.
Thr developers of the games choose themselves when an app will run and when not. Or where on which platform. It is out of topic to mention that something is only perfect when you can run your my little pony game.
I just want to play my favourite games and do my work. For that windows just works.
If you feel comfortable having every behaviour and text send to Microsoft. Go for it.
But arguing that Windows should be the number one because my daddy purchased it when you were small or smth should not be the main argument. Windows is shit and terrible. Its cool that capitalism led to create binaries only for Windows but not even that did not stop Linux from being a strong competitor without tracking and spying.
Especially, this stupid Microsoft OS is not even a one size fits all thing but tries very hard to be one.
Linux may just work too depending on what games you play or what work you do.
What the fuck are you on about saying “having every behaviour and text sent to Microsoft” and “arguing that Windows should be the number one”. He never said that, nor does anyone say that, get your head out your ass.
He said “Windows suits me”. That’s it, stfu.
Wow!! Thanks! I will try to debloat windows now and then replace all linux installations of mine with your suggestion. Which filesystem should I use to support paths > 256 characters on Windows?
Also: How can I bind my favorite Applications to my usual shortcuts? Never found that option in the settings.
Haven’t had trouble with wifi on Linux in like 12 years.
Bluetooth on the other hand…
I haven’t had trouble with windows wifi in… Literally ever. Seriously, wtf are people on about here?
Having supported windows professionally for many years… I have had trouble with windows wifi. Oh lawd have I. Linux is easier.
Linux is a worthy opponent. Windows is a toddler with a Glock.
I recently added windows to a separate drive on my linux machine, when I installed linux everything worked out of the box, meanwhile on windows I had to download the wifi drivers on a separate device and transfer them over to be able to even access the internet
@trailblazer911
I’m not criticising other people’s choices. People can use whatever they prefer 😄
I’m not saying Linux is better than Windows.
I’ve used windows all my life, and I have no idea what you’re talking about… I just boot that shit and it’s fine. Never good, but fine. It works.