Pressure grows on Apple to open up iMessage::Samsung has joined Google’s campaign to force Apple to make iMessage RCS-compatible—but European regulators are more likely to get that job done.
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The pressure doesn’t matter, apple makes a legitimate amount of money from people scared of being a different colored bubble. Unless someone actually writes it into law and makes a provision that all the bubbles must appear the same, nothing will change
This is weirdly only a thing in America. In Europe, where I live, iMessage isn’t that popular and iPhone users never seem to care about the bubble colour (likely because WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Element, and Threema are so popular, everyone is used to using multiple chat apps anyway).
Edit: Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.
Rather then pressure Apple to support and further popularise another closed protocol, we should be pushing for something open like Matrix or Signal.
: Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.
RCS is an implementation of GSMA Universal Profile and is interoperable with it
I don’t see any public license for GSMA Universal Profile and it seems you have to engage directly with GSMA to get any detail on the standard. Very much the opposite of things like Signal which not only are the standards public but so are the reference implementations.
I still don’t see an argument for why yet another proprietary standard and protocol is a good thing.
well RCS is to be the successor to SMS, which I believe was also introduced by GSMA
What you are using on Android isn’t RCS, it’s RCS+Google’s proprietary extension. There is no encryption in the spec, and the original implementation that went through carriers is ignored and it goes through Google. It’s essentially Google’s iMessage and they are trying to find their way into breaking Apple’s market share under false pretense.
I’ve just been reading the RCS Universal Profile Service Definition Document and it does stipulate encryption should be used but it is hardly defined how encryption should be implemented nor does it set an interoperable standard for it. I like RCS even less now.
“Methods for encryption, client verification, user authentication and access authorisation are applied by the client and the network on a per interface and protocol basis.”
So basically RCS is happy for there to be interoperability with regards to encryption, almost forcing interoperable implementations to forgo encryption so that different implementations can communicate.
Signal protocol is far far far better a standard than this lazy “service definition”.
Yea, the standard is great for a decade+ ago when it came out, but I’d never trust it as is over other things like Signal or even iMessage. Google’s RCS implementation is as trustworthy as anything else Google makes. They don’t even support it across all their products last I heard. It’s a joke.
I know, but isn’t the point that Google Messages is interoperable with other implementations such as T-Mobile’s or Verizon’s?
That may be the point, but it’s not working out that way. The spec is older than iMessage. It failed. Google just took it and made their own implementation. I’m not sure if Google’s RCS works with Verizon’s for example, I’m sure basic things do. AFAIK third party developers can’t implement it in their apps, so you have to have an Android phone to use it. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. The entire thing relies on Google to keep it running.
RCS is still IP based so why SMS should be replaced with RCS over Signal still isn’t clear. RCS and Signal are both IP based protocols yet one is proprietary and the other is libre. If we’re getting rid of SMS, we should be replacing it with something anyone can implement without any concerns for licensing or the standard being controlled by a single entity (which Google seems to be positioning themselves to be).
I have never heard of anyone in the U.S. who cares about the bubble color either. The only reason I ever cared was that it used to mean there was a good chance it wouldn’t get through if it was a green bubble, but that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. I’ve gotten iPhone-to-iPhone green bubbles when there’s been some sort of communication difficulty to Apple’s servers and it had to go straight SMS.
Are you dating or in school at the moment? I if not, it might be that you’re just oblivious to this trend, because it is definitely a thing in many social circles.
Seeems mostly a US centric thing though. I’ve never experienced this, 99% of people here with smartphones have whatsapp/telegram and use that almost exclusively, even iphone users.
No one said it wasn’t, but US is the largest and most affluent market and therefore the only one that matters. /s
Maybe for people much younger than me. But certainly I’ve never heard of such a thing in the many years I’ve had iPhones (started with the 3).
It’s not simply an age thing. I’m in my 40s and have definitely witnessed the judgment in the dating scene.
Ok, fair, I’ve been married for over two decades. I don’t get why anyone would care though.
It’s not that difficult to understand. An iPhone is a symbol of affluence, and that aspect is important to many people who are looking for a mate.
Edited to add: And as dating has shifted to being mostly online, the first real connection you have with a potential mate outside of the apps is via text.
Easy way to filter out the shallow people not worth your time
I haven’t encountered any adults who actually care about that in one-on-one conversations. I have however been excluded from group chats because mixing iMessage and SMS users resulted in a degraded experience. The iPhone users were, of course unwilling to consider installing any other chat app.
I find the last bit pretty annoying. It takes about 45 seconds to download Signal and confirm your number.
I just had that conversation with a group of adults who all had iPhones and were unwilling to add non-iPhone people to a group or change messaging apps.
The reasons given were:
- My iPhone is too old, I can’t install another messaging app.
- I’m not going to install another app where I have to remember another password.
- Messages don’t go through when we add a non-iPhone user to the group.
The conclusion by the group was “just buy an iPhone!”
And that’s a group of adults. I can’t imagine the bullying and peer pressure teenagers have to face over something as idiotic as messaging apps.
Meanwhile, I have six messaging apps on my phone (which is neither new nor high-end) and would be willing to install most others (not Facebook chat or Instagram) if it made communication easier for someone.
I have to say that in Denmark at least, iMessage seems to thrive quite well. There are quite a lot using Facebook messenger, but SMS and iMessage is a close second. This is entirely from my point of view. Never met anyone using the examples you mention, unless they are communicating with foreigners on a daily basis.
In finland everyone I know uses WhatsApp, and my friend circle and family also use Signal. So, eh.
It’s popular in Sweden too
It is proprietary but at least it will interoperable with other phones and carriers.
Also yesterday, Reuters reported that the European Commission has begun trying to establish whether iMessage should be brought under the remit of the EU’s new antitrust law, the Digital Markets Act, which imposes interoperability requirements (among other things) on so-called gatekeeper services that are part of many people’s daily lives.
Apple’s iOS operating system, App Store, and Safari browser already fall under the DMA, which is likely to force Apple to allow third-party app stores on iPhones and iPads, but Apple so far managed to lobby the Commission into leaving iMessage out of it. If the Commission decides after its investigation that iMessage is worth regulating in this way, Apple would have until August next year to introduce some form of interoperability—presumably with RCS.
Two related issues are being confused/conflated here.
The first is the American cultural significance of the green and blue bubbles. This is the thing that Europeans generally don’t care about as most are using WhatsApp et. al.
The second is the lack of interoperability between chat protocols such that it degrades the experience for everyone. This is what the EU is targeting.
I don’t think the colours of chat bubbles for specific devices as displayed by other specific devices falls under that remit. The implementor must comply with providing the same service level though. Whether or not this will lead to less cultural significance for bubble hues in the US remains to be seen.
It won’t be with RCS. The “gatekeeper” criteria applies to interoperation between dominant technologies. RCS has very small adoption in Europe. If iMessage will make the cut it will have to integrate with Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger and Signal.
Edit: I should clarify, there’s RCS the standard and there’s Google’s implementation. Google’s RCS is too small to be considered for itntegration. The standard on the other hand would be nice, in an ideal world; however, merging proprietary networks into an open standard is a very high goal and goes beyond what the EU wants to attempt at this time. Instead it will let the tech owners achieve interoperability in any way they want and can.
I’m pretty confident the blue and green colors have nothing to do with it. It’s simply the difficulties of using sms (or at least how Apple implements sms). iMessage allows much higher quality videos/images to be sent and enables group chats to be dynamic where people can be added and removed at will. On iOS sms group chats have to be made with every member in it at creation, if you want to add another person or remove a person then you have to make a whole new group chat. Compound this with iPhone dominance in North America it often presents an annoyance where the single android user forces all the iPhone users to use sms and all the difficulties/reduced features it comes with.
WhatsApp, Telegram, and whatever chat app isn’t used in NA because it’s just harder to convince someone to download and make an account. Why should a user download another chat app? Why isn’t iMessage (sms) app good enough? Usually I’ve seen people just use instagram to chat with android users because sms is just so bad (at least on iOS, I’ve heard some things about how android works around the limitations).
Yes Apple could implement better sms features but they won’t.
So don’t just parrot “it’s because of the colors” it’s most likely due to users association with past experiences of “green chat bubbles”.
Apple is still to blame here but it’s not because users are scared. Most iPhone users or phone users in general just want it to work and never think about what features they’re missing. Asking/convincing someone to download yet another app and set up yet another account to yet again be spammed by emails, texts, phone calls is just too much for a majority of people who are used to the simplicity of iMessage. It comes with your phone, you make a single Apple account, and it just works™.
I don’t get why more people don’t understand this. There is literally no way Apple is going to ditch iMessage or open it up voluntarily.
Cue the EU.
They already got Apple on USB-C, repairability and RCS are next.
There’s a difference between USB and RCS though. With RCS the standard was stillborn and the only surviving implementation is alive because it’s Google-controlled and represents their Nth attempt at a message platform. I don’t want to see something controlled by Google become a standard of communication. We’ve already seen what happens to such de facto standards, they have very bad aspects.
The EU will not mandate RCS, just like they did not mandate USB explicitly.
They will only mandate standardization, which will force Apple, Google and Meta (as owner of WhatsApp) to agree on a standard and then enforce that standard.
RCS is just the most likely outcome.
Maybe. Google certainly has a vested interest in RCS — but the others don’t. RCS is a large standard which goes beyond interconnecting networks. They can just as well design something smaller that only achieves the minimum necessary.
You have to keep in mind that these companies don’t want this. If they can waste time designing a new standard, they will. They are also not looking to re-implement their entire networks, they most certainly don’t want to “open them up”, they just want to comply with the letter of the law with as little change as possible.
Also keep in mind that RCS has glaring faults, such as the lack of encryption.
My guess is that they’re going to try to agree on a common message format, common API and common encryption protocol and leave it at that. There are already plenty of standards out there that cover these needs.
Perhaps. I am unfamiliar with merits of RCS versus alternatives.
Howsver, any solution that enables extra proprietary functionality outside of the standard would be non-compliant, so I don’t think they will be able to get a half-baked solution through.
Also, the EU has zero interest to play softball with these companies. If they can punish them with a billion euro fine for not complying, they definitely will.
any solution that enables extra proprietary functionality outside of the standard would be non-compliant, so I don’t think they will be able to get a half-baked solution through.
Again, there is no particular standard being mandated for this. The EU just wants interoperability – being able to communicate to a person using iMessage on their phone from your phone using Whatsapp for example. How the providers accomplish it is their business. The only pressure will be to not degrade the user’s experience to the point the interop becomes a liability rather than a boon.
the EU has zero interest to play softball with these companies. If they can punish them with a billion euro fine for not complying, they definitely will.
OK but they cannot simply slap fines on them and call it a day. If the companies say “what you’re asking for is too difficult” they will need to take the time to examine this claim. In fact I can guarantee right now that we’ll see the deadline extended at least once.
They’ll find some way to make it cumbersome and difficult to use so that no one bothers.
I’m sure their shareholders will appreciate getting billion euro fines.
/s
At best they will keep it out of the US market, until US regulators get up to speed.
iMessage isn’t anywhere near as popular in the EU as it is in the US, so it’s just not as big of a problem for them to target and apple is doing a good job lobbying them not to
My issue with RCS is its only open to other device makers, like you can’t make RCS apps cause you need a special license. Its a closed system that on android will likely always depend on google
The idea of making Apple use it is also part of Google giving the operations to carriers, just like SMS, and then gradually replacing SMS altogether. Google isn’t even supposed to be running the RCS servers. But they did it in order to get the standard up and running everywhere. It’s an open standard, and multiple carriers in several countries are on their way to carrying the burden of the servers, the way the standard is supposed to operate. Once it’s operating, all servers can talk to each other, just like you can SMS a person on another carrier line. RCS will allow universal rich texting.
Surely XMPP and other standards are different and I would prefer any other than something championed by Google. But the truth is, that the other standards aren’t invited to sit at the right tables and don’t offer the same “replace SMS once and for all” potential the way RCS does. XMPP for example is super expensive to escalate and like almost all of the traffic is just presence messaging, which is super wasteful and energy intensive on servers. RCS is not the best, but it’s one that all carriers and telecommunications agencies are on board for replacing the archaic SMS. And it doesn’t preclude using other protocols. Like, WhatsApp, Signal, Matrix and Telegram will still continue to exist.
I remember Steve Jobs stating on stage that the protocol will be opened up when iMessage was revealed. Apparently this statement surprised the developers of it, because they didn’t know anything about that (based on some rumors).
Then that statement was silently ignored.
It was FaceTime, not iMessage. The reason the developers were surprised was that they didn’t own the tech, and Apple lost a patent lawsuit about it and almost had to remove FaceTime entirely. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-20236114 https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/apple-s-facetime-open-standard-never-happened
Oh you’re right, I misremembered.
“Lol, no.” -Tim Cook, probably.
“Hell yes” - the EU, definitely
“Too bad” -the EU, as well
Unless the EU makes them use RCS they never will. In the US iMessage is literally THE REASON people buy the iPhone. It’s their main selling point. They don’t care how much pressure you place on them, they aren’t going to lose those sales willingly.
The EU has dragged Apple through the mud in order to make them change for the better, they will be able to do the same.
If what the first commenter said is true. They will just implement RCS or an alternative in the EU and make up some reason why they can’t or won’t for the US market.
I’ll take it. Whatever makes them suffer at least a little bit. (Apple, that is.)
I have seen people literally say they like that iMessage is exclusive, and they like to keep Android users away/separate
It was reeking of classism in addition to being generally a terrible thing to read
I’ve heard of people not responding to the wrong colored bubbles or being judgemental, like my $1,200 phone is better than your $1,200 phone?
They aren’t going to budge, at least not willingly.
Nobody I know uses iMessage (or RCS for that matter) here in Germany. Most people use WhatsApp.
Not nobody, it’s number three after WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger (both owned by Meta).
So yeah, the EU is definitely focusing on Meta, but iMessage, Signal and RCS (Google) are large enough to all be in scope of the regulation.
I don’t know if things like Snapchat are also in scope.
Edit: got corrected below. WhatsApp and Messenger are in scope, iMessage is being reviewed.
the EU is definitely focusing on Meta, but iMessage, Signal and RCS (Google) are large enough to all be in scope of the regulation.
Signal and RCS are not in scope. You can see the targeted services here, for communication it’s currently just WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger. iMessage is being discussed but that’s it. Signal and RCS don’t have a large enough share, Signal is tiny and RCS is not even a blip on the radar. If anything it’s going to be Viber and Telegram next. Viber has a 25x larger userbase than Signal, Telegram about 10x, and WhatsApp is about 75x. Here’s a chart to give you some idea.
Thanks, that clarifies it!
People keep getting messages the app and iMessage the protocol confused. While never written that way (as far as naming goes), I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the EU isn’t just saying that Messages the app doesn’t just need hooks to allow third party apps to integrate into the one interface. It’s about adding more bubble colors as it were. So stuff like WhatsApp would just pop up in the same feed over whatever protocol it uses.
But that would still be easier to convince someone to sign up for Signal or whatever other app if it came in a unified inbox. I just started using Beeper a couple of months ago, because while the security concerns are valid, it is really damn convenient.
I hope this is right
Doesn’t the EU DMA would eventually force Apple, Whatsapp… to open up ?
I don’t want next-gen SMS. I want adoption of Internet based and democratic standard instead.
Apple has a better solution. Why should they adopt a weaker one?
I’d love to see an open, secure, universal rich messaging standard adopted by everyone but we know that’s not gonna happen.
Carriers have literally no incentive to improve on SMS, I doubt they’ll lose any customers because of a lack of RCS adoption.
Do I like the locked in nature of iMessage? Not really, but it’s honestly not that big of a deal here (UK).
I just don’t like how Google talks about their proprietary messaging service as though it’s an industry standard. It’s not. Google RCS is not RCS.
