- cross-posted to:
- fuck_cars@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- fuck_cars@lemmy.ml
A new housing development outside Phoenix is looking towards European cities for inspiration and shutting out the cars. So far residents love it - The Guardian
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I really like it, I got excited. But …can we please build some for sale units in walkable areas and not just rental units? This live-by-subscription bullshit is out of hand
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Careful. You start talking about things being 15 minutes away and conservative whackos will claim you’re trying to put them in an open air prison.
Why aren’t we building neighborhoods like this in every city in the country?
Old NIMBYs want barren suburbs and they vote
One thing I’ve noticed is that most American cities contain huge, populous suburbs that exert strong political control over the urban core. So in my city the actual dense urban neighborhoods only get one of five votes on the city council (let alone the county where we have straight up nazis on board). This results in an inability to implement many of the policies that we here in the city know will be beneficial, solely because residents in the other 4 suburban districts want to maintain their ability to drive through and park at desirable downtown amenities. In my opinion this represents a failure of democracy because our neighborhoods have very little say in rule making or development even in our immediate surroundings.
It is far less this and far more developers and builders with limited imagination and limited government requirements building subdivisions with thousands of homes that are 10-20 minute drives from commercial districts, combined with state and local governments that are afraid of the political fallout from exercising the right of eminent domain to create trail corridors, so trails are virtually impossible to connect for any distance (except for abandoned rail beds).
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I would love to see more and more car free cities and other urban sprawling, but I have to say, this centralized business model where this developer is providing all the amenities, passes for the near by rail, paying rent to this developer, basically everything goes through them, they even had an app for the community, this is not a viable solution. What happens when this company is not able to sustain the spending or goes bankrupt, or worse sells majority share to an equity company. A decentralized model that goes through local government is a better option and not through for profit company. Even better option is to start from city center not a separate community on the edge of the city. I know what I’m saying sounds impossible in America, and with lobbying buy auto makers and other large corporate overlords, it probably is impossible. Social change can bring about the difference.
Homer gets a promotion
Great idea, but they are taking it too far. People should be allowed to have a car, but it should be parked at the edge of the neighborhood and only be allowed to come in for loading and unloading of heavy things.
That way you have all the benefits and almost no inconvenience at all. We have that in many places in Denmark and it works great.
There’s nothing more American than taking ideas to their extreme end.
But, it’s also not surprising to see this behavior given that it’s a response to the other extreme of cars in every space, in every location.
I would take it one step further and say there should probably be small (single lane) roads that run through the neighborhood or an underground carpark with a few freight elevators that run directly into the buildings. Why? For a same reason you mentioned that they should allow cars. If you get a new fridge, imagine trying to walk that sucker from the street to your apartment. You probably wouldn’t need very many freight elevators or access roads to significantly decrease the amount of effort required to get bulky and/or heavy objects to your apartment while still maintaining the general feel and spirit of a car-less community.
You really don’t need new fridges that often, the couple times you do just put them on boards on casters and shove. If you can’t: ask your neighbors, it’s a good bonding experience.
What about garbage disposal.
You going to pull that around on casters as well?
Gee I wonder how the pedestrian-only streets in Denmark are doing it? I guess they aren’t and are full of trash.
Stop conflating private car owner-ship with municipal service vehicles.
I guess they aren’t and are full of trash.
I mean… it is full of pesky Danish people tho (/s)
To be fair a pedestrian only street in a town with cars is very different from a street-less town.
It’s not just one street, though. It’s a series of connected streets. They’re actually quite comparable to superblocks in Aarhus, Copenhagen and Aalborg.
People should be allowed to have a car, but it should be parked at the edge of the neighborhood and only be allowed to come in for loading and unloading of heavy things
That’s exactly what this development is?
Walkable towns are better objectively.
Subjectively.
Like most things, it is about preference and/or what the measure of success is. Some people prefer the tighter, mixed-use concepts and some don’t. I know people that would love a concept like this and I know people that would be overwhelmed and depressed.
I just wanna add that walkable, while always advocated as a dense “15 minutes city” I hope doesn’t always have to be. There are examples of less dense walkable places, too. A little village with a market to one side, perhaps? “Walkable” exactly refers to a design pattern focused on pedestrian safety and pedestrian-scaled development. Aaaand that could exclude density, at the cost of population size.
Check out some random Dutch suburbs. For example, a neighbourhood in what is generally regarded as a shit city: https://maps.app.goo.gl/UYSB2iLeEbvPea4G6
No high rise construction, single family homes, 15 min walk from the supermarket (or 3 by bike), even less to a school (9 min walk if you make an effort to pick a bad spot), and hardly anyone lives by a big road and most places can be reached without ever crossing one.
And this is a city that is generally regarded as crappy, soulless and awful to the point that it’s a meme. (Lelystad is the Almere of Flevoland ;) )
Omg I thought it was just gonna look like my town but with bike lanes. No, your worst city is really creative actually. This is so quiet and safe, contrary to anything I’ve ever seen in America.
Nah.
Walkable towns aren’t just concepts, they are how civilization is structured in most other countries.
What about mixed neighborhoods makes some people depressed?
Low density suburbs limited sightlines allow for minimum visible injustice (MVI).
Mixed neighborhoods…you might see poor people.
where… where…
where… fuck! Phoenix
Seen today’s hypothetical senate poll?
Interested in going there to look at it. But I have no reason to go to Phoenix.
Great to see, except Phoenix is not going to be livable fairly soon due to climate change. This project needs to be done in the Midwest.
Somewhat. Cities vary widely in risk and readiness.
https://listwithclever.com/research/top-cities-impacted-climate-change/
Where in the Midwest? Much of the Mississippi River region is predicted to have some really nasty wet bulb temps. But areas around the Great Lakes (maybe not Chicago) sound like a safe bet. But yeah, when I first heard of this project I was shocked they put it in Tempe of all places.
I’m not sure there’s much evidence to support this claim. It certainly will be extremely hot but probably not more than some of the hottest cities on earth today. For example, the average temperature in Kuwait City is 10 degrees hotter than Phoenix in July, and people have found a way to live there. People will likely adapt, though it definitely will have an impact on walkability during those hot months.
It’s not the heat, it’s the lack of water.
Maybe but the amount of water needed to sustain human life is quite low. If water is prioritized for human use over agriculture and non-functional landscaping there should be enough. Right now much of it goes to non-essential things.
People in Phoenix treat their grass like they treat their guns, you can take their grass from their cold dead hands. There’s no reason there should be year-round mosquitoes in a desert city.
At least it’s not Kuwait. 🤓 Development in Arizona, I think, isn’t happening to meet a demand but rather being funded by eccentric people and being met with a government with less taxes and regulations.
https://culdesac.com/ if you actually want to see pictures of the place. The article just has a bunch of close up photos of walls and people.
Ughh I love it. Can’t wait for urbanist youtube to dive into the details, and follow up on how well it works out.
Yeah, thats why theyre so expensive, lots of people want it and very few places offer it.
