I guess not strictly news - but with all of the vitriol I have seen in discussions on the Israel situation, that have boiled down to arguments over wording, I feel that this take from the BBC is worthy of some discussion.

Mods, feel free to remove if this is not newsy enough.

Article: Why BBC doesn’t call Hamas militants ‘terrorists’ - John Simpson

Government ministers, newspaper columnists, ordinary people - they’re all asking why the BBC doesn’t say the Hamas gunmen who carried out appalling atrocities in southern Israel are terrorists.

The answer goes right back to the BBC’s founding principles.

Terrorism is a loaded word, which people use about an outfit they disapprove of morally. It’s simply not the BBC’s job to tell people who to support and who to condemn - who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

We regularly point out that the British and other governments have condemned Hamas as a terrorist organisation, but that’s their business. We also run interviews with guests and quote contributors who describe Hamas as terrorists.

The key point is that we don’t say it in our voice. Our business is to present our audiences with the facts, and let them make up their own minds.

As it happens, of course, many of the people who’ve attacked us for not using the word terrorist have seen our pictures, heard our audio or read our stories, and made up their minds on the basis of our reporting, so it’s not as though we’re hiding the truth in any way - far from it.

Any reasonable person would be appalled by the kind of thing we’ve seen. It’s perfectly reasonable to call the incidents that have occurred “atrocities”, because that’s exactly what they are.

No-one can possibly defend the murder of civilians, especially children and even babies - nor attacks on innocent, peace-loving people who are attending a music festival.

During the 50 years I’ve been reporting on events in the Middle East, I’ve seen for myself the aftermath of attacks like this one in Israel, and I’ve also seen the aftermath of Israeli bomb and artillery attacks on civilian targets in Lebanon and Gaza. The horror of things like that stay in your mind forever.

But this doesn’t mean that we should start saying that the organisation whose supporters have carried them out is a terrorist organisation, because that would mean we were abandoning our duty to stay objective.

And it’s always been like this in the BBC. During World War Two, BBC broadcasters were expressly told not to call the Nazis evil or wicked, even though we could and did call them “the enemy”.

“Above all,” said a BBC document about all this, “there must be no room for ranting”. Our tone had to be calm and collected.

It was hard to keep that principle going when the IRA was bombing Britain and killing innocent civilians, but we did. There was huge pressure from the government of Margaret Thatcher on the BBC, and on individual reporters like me about this - especially after the Brighton bombing, where she just escaped death and so many other innocent people were killed and injured.

But we held the line. And we still do, to this day.

We don’t take sides. We don’t use loaded words like “evil” or “cowardly”. We don’t talk about “terrorists”. And we’re not the only ones to follow this line. Some of the world’s most respected news organisations have exactly the same policy.

But the BBC gets particular attention, partly because we’ve got strong critics in politics and in the press, and partly because we’re rightly held to an especially high standard. But part of keeping to that high standard is to be as objective as it’s possible to be.

That’s why people in Britain and right round the world, in huge numbers, watch, read and listen to what we say, every single day.

    • Nighed@sffa.communityOP
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      9 months ago

      The well known phrase is “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter”. I Imagine from their point of view, Israel is the ‘terrorist’ group, routinely bombing apartment buildings etc and that their actions are a proportionate counter (recent events nonwithstanding!)

      Both sides of the current conflict have/are committing atrocities, but the reporting of those atrocities should be as factual and unbiased as possible.

      • wewbull@feddit.uk
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        9 months ago

        The best way I’ve heard it described is that they both view the other group of people as existential evil. Far beyond enemies, something which is evil just for existing. Not just the militaries, but the nation, race, state, religion, whatever classification. With that viewpoint, any action you take can be justified. Just as nobody would think twice about killing a million mosquito larvae in a country that has thousands die from malaria, killing a few thousand of the other side is morally neutral at worst.

        This is going to continue to be horrific for a while.

      • CookieJarObserver@ani.social
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        9 months ago

        The freedom fighters that behead babies, rape woman and abduct people… Oh and also rocketstrike civilians in general…

        If you believe in their “freedom” feel free to go there.

        • audiomodder@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          9 months ago

          So do you call the Israeli army terrorists? Because they’ve done all of those things to an even greater extent than Hamas has.

        • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          You know, they BOTH do that shit, right? It’s important that you know this.

            • angrymouse@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              But complaining about whataboutism while you ignore the problem everytime somoeone powerfull or ally does sucks the same. A war of suckers.

              • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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                9 months ago

                But redirecting attention away from the topic being discussed just so you can whine about someone else doing the same makes it appear as if you’re justifying it so long as someone else does it.

                Stop doing this. It’s juvenile and muddies the water. You want to discuss how shitty America is, do it in its own post where that can be discussed in full. Here, it doesn’t belong.

                • angrymouse@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  I’m not trying to do that, I’m trying to understand how to international interests interact with the war, if you really want to understand international conflicts you should do this all the time.

                  Saying “Hammas bad” is much more juvenile, and is equivalent of saying “fart” for the discussion

            • gregorum@lemm.ee
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              9 months ago

              And while you have every right to your opinion, your opinion isn’t a newsworthy or relevant fact.

    • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Journalists should never label a group of people with an adjective. It’s Journalism 101. Your writing should be free of personal bias and report the facts and quoted statements. No assumptions are allowed.

            • gregorum@lemm.ee
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              9 months ago

              Lmao, you’re seriously linking to a deleted comment to try to make your case?

              Laws are, by definition, a legal opinion— which can be overturned, by the way, by another legal opinion. The only fact here is that it is, is some jurisdiction, a law.

        • angrymouse@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          That just is not the point. I mean, if you are involved in the conflict you can totally believe in anything, but the point is in the moment you call them terrorist and call it a day you lost any possibility to analyze the situation and understand WTF is happening and why.

          BBC is not saying they are NOT terrorists, but it does not matter in this context.

        • BolexForSoup@kbin.social
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          9 months ago

          I’m not sure I agree with their decision, but I’m just saying that their logic is at least somewhat valid. I wouldn’t write it off as just an excuse.

    • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      The U.S., U.K., E.U., and others designate them as a terrorist group but the U.N. does not. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups

      The reality is that they’re the militant faction of the de facto government of a quasi-state under Israeli occupation. It is complicated so the BBC just says who thinks they’re a terrorist group. That seems reasonable for journalists striving to be neutral.

      • kautau@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        “Everybody wants to occupy ‘the holy land’ and everyone who is taking part of that sucks”

        While Israel has been basically a terrorist state, attacking Palestinians nonchalant, bombing civilian districts, and Hamas has grown in number, also basically being a terrorist state (the iron dome exists for a reason), it feels like we are forgetting that this whole argument comes down to religious rights. The argument will never end. The conflict will never end. Both groups are thumping their book claiming it’s their land. The war will go on for centuries until there’s nothing left to claim. That’s how religious war works, unless some other great motivator stops it.

        • hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest
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          9 months ago

          The war will go on for centuries until there’s nothing left to claim

          The US is older than Israel. My grandfather is older than Israel and he’s still alive. There was no state of Israel in 1920 and the Jewish population in the region was ~11%. This hasn’t been going on for centuries. It’s been going on for century.

          • kautau@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            The history of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel has its origins in the 2nd millennium BCE, when Israelites emerged as an outgrowth of southern Canaanites, During biblical times, a postulated United Kingdom of Israel existed before splitting into two Israelite kingdoms occupying the highland zone

            The Crusades, the Ottoman Empire, thankfully those only lasted a century and that’s when we determined who got what.

            Yes I’m sure that since they didn’t have it before, they wouldn’t try to have it again. My point is not about nations that rise and fall. It’s that they will continue to rise and fall for this holy war on what they consider to be “their land”

            Are you really sure that without US intervention, and the nation of Israel starting, there wouldn’t be orthodox Jewish terrorists on the other side of the border claiming it was “their land?”

            Those claiming it’s “their land” will continue to fight, until everyone is dead. That’s my point.