u/ThePeoplesBadger - originally from r/GenZhou
It seems that based on what I have read:

  • WW1 and the foreign-backed civil war utterly destroyed Russia and its population, but the Bolsheviks won out after a very long and drawn out period of devastation.
  • Lenin introduced the NEP to begin to build the basis for an eventually socialist economy by developing industry and agriculture with similar practices to other capitalist countries (but without imperialism)
  • There was disagreement in the Bolshevik leadership after Lenin’s strokes and passing on how to move forward. Some top party leaders suggested moving forward “at a snail’s pace,” but it seems that Stalin had a very “yes we can” attitude, introduced five year plans, and completely revolutionized the country/countries in socialist construction.
  • When Stalin died, Khrushchev turned around and in his “secret speech,” condemned Stalin and hung all blame on Stalin for all of the problems in the USSR.
  • Khrushchev initiated changes and reforms that were seen by China as extremely problematic and revisionist, contributing to the Sino-Soviet split.
  • China followed some very similar approaches to building socialism as the USSR but also approaches unique to the material nature of China, hence “socialism with Chinese characteristics.”
  • Mao dies in the 70s (right? I could have the dates wrong) and the torch is passed to Deng Xiaoping, and China opens up to foreign trade and meets with Nixon and China becomes an economic power on the international market.
  • It seems like since then, China has been working deliberately and exactingly toward eliminating poverty, raising the living standards, and building up industries and trade across the entire spectrum.

Please correct any misunderstandings I may have above, as these are the understandings that form the basis of my questions.

  1. What were the reforms initiated by Khrushchev?
  2. What were the reforms initiated by Deng?
  3. How/why were the Khrushchev reforms revisionist?
  4. Were the Deng reforms revisionist, and regardless, why or why not?
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    2 years ago

    u/Sihplak - originally from r/GenZhou
    Revisionism is not simply adapting policies and changing approach. Rather, it is distorting Marxism resulting (intentionally or not) in anti-Communist goals or outcomes.

    In Khrushchev’s case, it’s more of the specific ideological line which informs the reforms taken, rather than the reforms in and of themselves. We can look at Mao’s critique here. In other words, the reforms were contextualized in a manner that benefitted bourgeois interests rather than the proletariat.

    Deng’s reforms did not fall into this category. Khrushchev was a revisionist because he eschewed the notion of class dictatorship as the nature of state power, while Deng was adamant about the proletariat maintaining state power. The reforms of Khrushchev acted as a means to degrade the level of proletarian development of the USSR and instead accept bourgeois notions of “peaceful coexistence” with Capitalist powers. Deng understood that, even if maintaining positive basic relations with Capitalist powers, there would always be a continued antagonism between them, hence the idea of “hiding one’s power” (to paraphrase) that he advocated for during China’s development under his leadership.

    Khrushchev’s reforms have superficial similarity to Deng’s, but not essential similarity. Agrarian reform under Deng was not to denounce collective farming, since it remained in place in various areas, but rather, to follow the Marxist-Leninist line of dialectical materialism; much of China were still peasants and were in regions difficult to maintain such large-scale collective farms in. Thus, things like the getihu system and “contracting down to the household” were done, and weren’t simply for the purpose of decentralization or so-called “efficiency”, but rather, for the very purpose of serving the people. Wan Li’s argument in favor of “contracting down to the household”, for example, involved pointing out the fact that the peasants were having trouble getting just enough to eat due to the problems of over-centralized systems. (Screenshot from page 439 of Ezra Vogel’s biography of Deng Xiaoping) This can lead us to think to a portion from Maos critique of Khrushchev linked above:

    Khrushchov has substituted “material incentive” for the socialist principle, “from each according to his ability, to each according to his work”. He has widened, and not narrowed, the gap between the incomes of a small minority and those of the workers, peasants and ordinary intellectuals.

    When centralization and bureaucracy is not serving the people, then it objectively arises that it is not serving the Communist or Marxist line, and moreover, may be associated with some fundamental error in class analysis, such as in the case of trying to universally impose collective farming on disparate, non-proletarianized peasants, especially in mountainous areas and other areas difficult to maintain large farming systems on.

    So, in short:

    1. What matters are the objective consequences and theoretical basis in determining revisionist character. Those that distort, misrepresent, etc. Marxism are falling to revisionism. Such errors, opportunist attacks, etc. can be seen in ignoring or eschewing the issues of class struggle, establishing systems or institutions that aid bourgeois interests or intensify class divide, etc.

    2. Khrushchev’s policies were to denounce Stalin, to deny the class nature of the state, to promote an idea of “peaceful coexistence” with antagonistic Capitalist powers, and to implement economic reforms which, while on a basic level helped improve small industry, on a systemic level had major problems such as not adequately maintaining price updates and economic liberalization without adequate state control or influence.

    3. Deng’s reforms were never against the workers, but rather, premised fundamentally on the material conditions of the people. The decentralization policies allowed for small producers to become more prosperous as would those in their communities, helping with distribution of benefits to the people given the level of economic development in China. The development of private enterprises, further, were never in a context of them gaining political power, but rather, always being subjected to the central authority of the Communists, who maintained a consistent and popular line.

    So, Deng was not revisionist since the basis and material outcomes of his reforms were fundamentally predicated upon a Marxist character; analysis of the material conditions of the people, ensuring the central authority of the Communists and proletariat over any private capital interests, maintaining total control of land by the CPC, etc. Khrushchev’s reforms, meanwhile, had a fundamentally erroneous position, which were, at best, not studied well enough in Marxism (if we’re generous to him and say he was a “Marxist”), or at worst, was an actual Capitalist roader.

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      2 years ago

      u/Sky-Anvil - originally from r/GenZhou
      Also, the simpler difference is: Sovereignty.

      Sure, they both opened up, but the betrayed USSR gave away their core infrastructure.

      China did not.

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      2 years ago

      u/ScienceSleep99 - originally from r/GenZhou
      Khrushchev was an actual capitalist roader but not Deng and Co who were repeatedly denounced as such? And did the term mean restoring capitalism in X country, or did it mean taking the capitalist road to socialism? I never figured out which one it was.

      As for the household responsibility system, it was China’s prior pre-reform decades of massive government investment in collective farms, rural infrastructure, especially irrigation that helped lay the ground work for higher productivity. In the transitional stage, collectivization of agriculture, based on all around development of large scale industry which is capable of reorganizing agriculture on a modern technical basis, is vitally needed. So how can a socialist state base itself on large industry and also a scattered and ultimately regressive small commodity peasant economy? Collectivization and the elimination of the Kulak class was a leap that propelled the USSR. What China was missing was lacking the level of mechanization that defined Soviet collectivization, but the reformers took an even further step backward by de-collectivizing. For a short while production increased but later stagnated. Bourgoise writer Will Hutton said, the “typical peasant plot is far too small to be the basis of highly productive agricultural sector in the long run.”

      A few decades later unproductive farmers were encouraged to sell their land and seek other employment. The aim was to consolidate land holdings and commercialize agriculture. Between 1992 and 2007 close to 20 million farmers were driven off their land. So China went from collective farming, to HRS, to the growth of modern agribusiness.

      This story like so many in China details the development at all costs model of the reformers, mimicking everything capitalist countries did to get rich in order to develop the productive forces. Everything from primitive accumulation such as what I described above with the dismantling of collective farms, to pushing rural peasants in the urban economy, etc.

      I would never go so far as to call Deng and his ideological predecessors as wanting to restore capitalism, but I will say they did want to literally take a “capitalist” road by mimicking or using a Eurocentric capitalist model development as a tool to build the productive forces, and lay the ground work for a new more advanced socialist base.