I’m going to create a distro where EVERYTHING including your web browser is launched through systemd and it’s built from nothing but snaps, just for you guys. I’ll call it “Oops! All snaps.”
Be careful you’re going to start a war. But to answer your question (simply and superficially) there is nothing wrong with systemd, the hate comes mainly from a philosophical issue. It was created to replace old systems related to the basic functioning of the OS (process management, hardware, etc.), and people complain that it has a feature creep problem because it has subsystems to replace different areas of the OS and purists don’t like it, and is true that it can replace several areas but you can choose which areas are replaced, it’s not like you have to.
Another problem is that there is (or was, I don’t follow these things) friction between the Kernel and systemd, as systemd developers did not respect certain development philosophies.
There are several technicalities and nuances to this story but I don’t feel like writing a book, so I hope this at least partially answers your question.
Another problem is that there is (or was, I don’t follow these things) friction between the Kernel and systemd, as systemd developers did not respect certain development philosophies.
When systemd sees “debug” as part of the kernel command-line, it will spit out so much informaiton about the system that it fails to boot… The init system just collapses the system with too much information being sent to the dmesg when seeing the debug option as part of the kernel command-line parameter. Within the systemd bug report it was suggested for systemd not to look for a simple “debug” string to go into its debug mode but perhaps something like “systemd.debug” or other namespaced alternatives. The debug kernel command-line parameter has been used by upstream Linux kernel developers for many years. However, upstream systemd developers don’t agree about changing their debug code detection. Kay Sievers of Red Hat wrote, “Generic terms are generic, not the first user owns them.”
tl;dr: systemd parsed kernel command line information; when “debug” was present, systemd enabled logging that was so verbose that it would cause the system to become unbootable. systemd developers were notified of the issue and started acting passive aggressive instead of fixing the issue.
Or to put it more simply: if you make changes that cause Linus Torvalds’ system to stop booting properly, you’re probably gonna have a bad time.
Don’t forget the development issues. Last I read up on this was several years ago, so things may have changed, but:
It’s open source, but it’s entirely controlled by a handful of people who work for RedHat, and they don’t publish any of their communications about development nor any supporting material like code documentation. It’s a massive complicated codebase and they’ve made no effort to make it accessible, nor do they allow contributions from anyone outside the RedHat team, so it remains a closed black box controlled by a private, for profit corporation.
oh my dear god TAKE COVER, TUCK EVERYTHING IN AND COVER THE WINDOWS, THE FIRST SHOTS HAVE BEEN FIRED EVERYONE DUCK UNDER THE TABLE I REPEAT THE FINAL WAR HAS BEGUN
I’m going to create a distro where EVERYTHING including your web browser is launched through systemd and it’s built from nothing but snaps, just for you guys. I’ll call it “Oops! All snaps.”
Sounds great. SnapOS.
ThanOS
What the hell? Half of the bytes on my drive are missing!
It should have a custom desktop environment called Crackle (or Krackle if KDE based).
System sounds are snaps, cracks and pops.
Just have to patch in the Linux sound drivers from the 90s!
SnapOS sounds better than the current hybrid that is Ubuntu.
It seems like that is where Canonical wants to end up anyways, its going to be very weird to see a non Debian Ubuntu.
You could call it… Ubuntu 24.10 the way things are going lol
What’s with all the systemd hate? It seems to work well for me…
Be careful you’re going to start a war. But to answer your question (simply and superficially) there is nothing wrong with systemd, the hate comes mainly from a philosophical issue. It was created to replace old systems related to the basic functioning of the OS (process management, hardware, etc.), and people complain that it has a feature creep problem because it has subsystems to replace different areas of the OS and purists don’t like it, and is true that it can replace several areas but you can choose which areas are replaced, it’s not like you have to.
Another problem is that there is (or was, I don’t follow these things) friction between the Kernel and systemd, as systemd developers did not respect certain development philosophies.
There are several technicalities and nuances to this story but I don’t feel like writing a book, so I hope this at least partially answers your question.
More information on this here:
tl;dr: systemd parsed kernel command line information; when “debug” was present, systemd enabled logging that was so verbose that it would cause the system to become unbootable. systemd developers were notified of the issue and started acting passive aggressive instead of fixing the issue.
Or to put it more simply: if you make changes that cause Linus Torvalds’ system to stop booting properly, you’re probably gonna have a bad time.
Don’t forget the development issues. Last I read up on this was several years ago, so things may have changed, but:
It’s open source, but it’s entirely controlled by a handful of people who work for RedHat, and they don’t publish any of their communications about development nor any supporting material like code documentation. It’s a massive complicated codebase and they’ve made no effort to make it accessible, nor do they allow contributions from anyone outside the RedHat team, so it remains a closed black box controlled by a private, for profit corporation.
It’s open source in the worst way possible.
oh my dear god TAKE COVER, TUCK EVERYTHING IN AND COVER THE WINDOWS, THE FIRST SHOTS HAVE BEEN FIRED EVERYONE DUCK UNDER THE TABLE I REPEAT THE FINAL WAR HAS BEGUN
Oh SNAP!
Chaotic evil
I want an OS where every application is a web app, each packaged with their own browser running in docker in a snap.
The systemd devs should create a desktop environment so they can make an entire distro with nothing but systemd from bootloader to screensaver.
desktopd here we goooooooooo
I’m personally waiting for kerneld
That’s the actual plan. They are working on moving system components like cups to a snap
please add a trigger warning!