Exactly. We complainers aren’t saying they can’t post about politics, just requesting they post their political memes in the designated political meme space.
EDIT: A message to people from Hexbear
Thank you for your input, but I stopped responding to arguments here at least 24 hours ago because I can’t juggle that many conversations at once. I would ask that you respect that and not continue to argue with me about what is and isn’t political, because I’m just going to ignore it anyways. Thank you.
Civil liberties advocates argue that free speech zones are used as a form of censorship and public relations management to conceal the existence of popular opposition from the mass public and elected officials.[24] There is much controversy surrounding the creation of these areas – the mere existence of such zones is offensive to some people, who maintain that the First Amendment to the United States Constitution makes the entire country an unrestricted free speech zone.[24] The Department of Homeland Security “has even gone so far as to tell local police departments to regard critics of the War on Terrorism as potential terrorists themselves.”
In this context, it’s matters related to government, politicians, or the general culture of a country, in which there are two or more major camps of conflicting opinions, where a good deal of people in one or more of those camps view the other camp as evil because of their view.
If the post is in a community where only one of the camps is significantly present, but the post is attacking the other camp, it is still political.
Why do you ask? Are you hoping to expose some inconsistency in my definition? Maybe use it to call something I like political with the expectation that I’ll disagree with you? Or were you expecting my definition to be biased, calling something political that shouldn’t be, so that you could expose me as a moustache-twirling villain?
I don’t think “I don’t like my job” is politically divisive. You don’t really get people up in arms about it unless you’re complaining about capitalism or work in general. Even boomers have their “I’d rather be fishing” meme about it.
I don’t think “I don’t like my job” is politically divisive.
This is absolutely a political statement. Your work and conditions are political and can be changed only through seizing control and unionization, both political actions.
With the division of labour, in which all these contradictions are implicit, and which in its turn is based on the natural division of labour in the family and the separation of society into individual families opposed to one another, is given simultaneously the distribution, and indeed the unequal distribution, both quantitative and qualitative, of labour and its products, hence property: the nucleus, the first form, of which lies in the family, where wife and children are the slaves of the husband. This latent slavery in the family, though still very crude, is the first property, but even at this early stage it corresponds perfectly to the definition of modern economists who call it the power of disposing of the labour-power of others. Division of labour and private property are, moreover, identical expressions: in the one the same thing is affirmed with reference to activity as is affirmed in the other with reference to the product of the activity.
Further, the division of labour implies the contradiction between the interest of the separate individual or the individual family and the communal interest of all individuals who have intercourse with one another. And indeed, this communal interest does not exist merely in the imagination, as the “general interest,” but first of all in reality, as the mutual interdependence of the individuals among whom the labour is divided. And finally, the division of labour offers us the first example of how, as long as man remains in natural society, that is, as long as a cleavage exists between the particular and the common interest, as long, therefore, as activity is not voluntarily, but naturally, divided, man’s own deed becomes an alien power opposed to him, which enslaves him instead of being controlled by him. For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic. This fixation of social activity, this consolidation of what we ourselves produce into an objective power above us, growing out of our control, thwarting our expectations, bringing to naught our calculations, is one of the chief factors in historical development up till now.
Marx. The German Ideology.
Tl:DR work under capitalism fucking sucks because it’s exploiting us and not fighting for your liberation is politically divisive
“I don’t like my job” is so political people bled and died to the american government for your right to not have to do it 80 hours a week as a 12 year old.
You’re pretty upset that I asked a question aren’t you? I wonder why that is.
Government and politicians I think are pretty self explanatory and I would agree those are inherently political, no argument there.
What do you think is part of a general culture of a country, or not? How would you define culture that has conflicting opinions? Is it solely up to your discretion, or would you agree that if anyone has any disagreement about a meme that would make it automatically political?
Is this one political because it references the FBI, a governmental organization? https://startrek.website/post/1847371 I would argue that it is political.
Is this one political because it references culture related to advertising in capitalism? I would think everyone should agree that any reference to or commentary of an economic system is inherently political because of course economic systems are controversial. I don’t see how anyone could argue that references to a combination of two major brands isn’t a commentary on marketing: https://programming.dev/post/3200916
I’m just curious about what you and others think is political versus not. You can’t have a discussion about if something should or should not be allowed if you can’t clearly define the boundaries of that thing. I find the discussion around what is and isn’t politics to be an interesting one, that’s all.
Lmao. The FBI: famously non-political government organization that murders activists as easily as one can breath air.
And Microsoft: famously non-political company that bribes lobbies the u.s government constantly to gain monopoly over their market, works hand-in-hand with federal agencies to monitor system users, and regularly influences city, state, and national politics in the pursuit of subsidies of the American worker in order to further boost their already gross profit margins.
There’s no point arguing with you since you can’t understand the basic concept of what the point of a meme is nor can you read what I previously wrote.
No you have to be missing a brain to think monopolies don’t have anything to do with politics.
Stealing a line from something I saw earlier. If you don’t like the memes just ignore them like you do the homeless people you walk by, non-politically.
When you get to the size of a monopoly like that, you operate on such a massive scale that your very existence as a company, and the actions required to grow and sustain it, is orders of magnitude more politcal than say, the small-scale relationship between a restaurant owner and their employees, which is also inherently politcal.
Acknowledging the fact that politics exist is not inherently political. Please explain how that third meme is even remotely political?
Regardless, the lack of a clear and simple political-or-not binary is not an excuse to avoid moderation. The political nature of some things will be argued and some things will slip through the cracks. It happens with all spectrums. But on the other hand, some things are so clearly political that it’s nigh impossible to argue they’re not. I’m sure you can see the massive difference in a meme about Microsoft shoes and a meme about Trump or Biden bad. Those clear extremely political memes are the ones people want banned to their own communities.
And to be clear, I actually like political memes. I just find your rebuttal to be in bad taste.
Not upset, just suspicious because I’ve seen you asking that question a lot.
Obviously what I consider political is up to my discretion, but I’m pretty sure the general definition does not include contentious memes, and mine doesn’t either because I gave a clause about one side considering the other side evil because of it.
In general, if a person asks themselves “is what I’m posting political?” they can answer correctly 95% of the time, and the 5% of edge cases won’t upset 95% of the complainers.
What I meant was that anyone can ask themselves if it’s political, and 95% of the time they’ll get it right by the standards of 95% of the people who don’t like politics.
just requesting they post their political memes in the designated political meme space
How is everyone supposed to know what parts of reality and conceivable concepts are political to you and which parts of it are just the political status quo norms that you’re so comfortable with that you don’t notice it the way a fish doesn’t notice water?
Exactly! Just like how nobody was saying Rosa Parks couldn’t ride the bus. She would have gotten to her destination anyway had she just ridden at the back like we requested!
You’re right. Wanting people who make you uncomfortable to go to their own area so that you don’t have to see them or think about their political grievances has no parallels with segregation.
Look, yes obviously as socialists we are not welcome in most public places if we speak out, but of all places to make that claim Lemmy.ml is not the one. The mods here are comrades. This is, next to hexbear and grad, probably one of the online spaces most receptive to us. The you were replying to has no institutional power against us at all. I hate to tone police but posting on Lemmy is not comparable to being Rosa Parks and trying to make a tortured analogy isn’t helping anyone.
The atomic unit of propaganda is emphasis. If you force people to stop posting “political” memes in the main memes space then you are implicitly taking the stance is that “non-political” memes are normal and “political” memes are the other. Everyone intuitively understands that being othered is not desirable because the advocates for separation are not the ones volunteering to create their own apolitical memes space, they’re trying to get political memes ejected from the mainstream space.
Of course this isn’t literal segregation, but the arguments for separation basically all boil down to “go to this separate but equal space and stay there” so if they don’t want to be compared to people who historically made the same argument, they should try coming up with a different argument.
Exactly. We complainers aren’t saying they can’t post about politics, just requesting they post their political memes in the designated political meme space.
EDIT: A message to people from Hexbear
Thank you for your input, but I stopped responding to arguments here at least 24 hours ago because I can’t juggle that many conversations at once. I would ask that you respect that and not continue to argue with me about what is and isn’t political, because I’m just going to ignore it anyways. Thank you.
The concept of having ‘free speech zones’ where political speech is allowed is … very inherently political though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone
What does being political mean to you?
In this context, it’s matters related to government, politicians, or the general culture of a country, in which there are two or more major camps of conflicting opinions, where a good deal of people in one or more of those camps view the other camp as evil because of their view.
If the post is in a community where only one of the camps is significantly present, but the post is attacking the other camp, it is still political.
Why do you ask? Are you hoping to expose some inconsistency in my definition? Maybe use it to call something I like political with the expectation that I’ll disagree with you? Or were you expecting my definition to be biased, calling something political that shouldn’t be, so that you could expose me as a moustache-twirling villain?
So we can’t post memes about … checks notes the general culture of our country?
So no memes about anything with literally any specifics.
You realize if you got your wish memses would just be “how many of yall like breathing”
Maybe you could point us to an example of an acceptable meme with no politics involved.
Earlier in this thread, I said:
I also clarified that it has to be contentious, in a way where people condemn each other for thinking differently.
Here are some non-political memes posted in this community in the past hour:
https://lemmy.ml/post/5184036
https://lemmy.ml/post/5185652
https://lemmy.ml/post/5185650
https://lemmy.ml/post/5186256
https://lemmy.ml/post/5186204
That’s 5 of the 6 memes posted in that timespan.
1 and 3 are pretty directly political lol
Here let me give you the codex.
When this person says “political” they mean “things I dont agree with”
I don’t think “I don’t like my job” is politically divisive. You don’t really get people up in arms about it unless you’re complaining about capitalism or work in general. Even boomers have their “I’d rather be fishing” meme about it.
This is absolutely a political statement. Your work and conditions are political and can be changed only through seizing control and unionization, both political actions.
Tl:DR work under capitalism fucking sucks because it’s exploiting us and not fighting for your liberation is politically divisive
Well by that logic, merely saying “I have a job” is a political statement.
Also I’m not reading all that, thank you.
“I don’t like my job” is so political people bled and died to the american government for your right to not have to do it 80 hours a week as a 12 year old.
First one is about technology and alienation under a capitalist mode of production, discussing work and leisure. That’s political.
Third one is about dating and advertisements online, which is related to sexual politics and commodification of sex work online. Political.
You’re pretty upset that I asked a question aren’t you? I wonder why that is.
Government and politicians I think are pretty self explanatory and I would agree those are inherently political, no argument there.
What do you think is part of a general culture of a country, or not? How would you define culture that has conflicting opinions? Is it solely up to your discretion, or would you agree that if anyone has any disagreement about a meme that would make it automatically political?
Is this one political because it references the FBI, a governmental organization? https://startrek.website/post/1847371 I would argue that it is political.
Is this one political because it references culture related to advertising in capitalism? I would think everyone should agree that any reference to or commentary of an economic system is inherently political because of course economic systems are controversial. I don’t see how anyone could argue that references to a combination of two major brands isn’t a commentary on marketing: https://programming.dev/post/3200916
I mean this one references politics so it’s clearly political right? https://lemm.ee/post/8502748
I’m just curious about what you and others think is political versus not. You can’t have a discussion about if something should or should not be allowed if you can’t clearly define the boundaries of that thing. I find the discussion around what is and isn’t politics to be an interesting one, that’s all.
I think can answer the memes questions for you.
Lmao. The FBI: famously non-political government organization that murders activists as easily as one can breath air.
And Microsoft: famously non-political company that
bribeslobbies the u.s government constantly to gain monopoly over their market, works hand-in-hand with federal agencies to monitor system users, and regularly influences city, state, and national politics in the pursuit of subsidies of the American worker in order to further boost their already gross profit margins.I’m not disagreeing that some companies can have a political impact on the world.
Those memes in particular, aren’t focused on the political aspects. You have to be missing a brain in order to miss the point there.
You can’t have one without the other and you’d have to have a brain smoother than melting butter in order to miss the point there
There’s no point arguing with you since you can’t understand the basic concept of what the point of a meme is nor can you read what I previously wrote.
No you have to be missing a brain to think monopolies don’t have anything to do with politics.
Stealing a line from something I saw earlier. If you don’t like the memes just ignore them like you do the homeless people you walk by, non-politically.
I never said they don’t have anything to do with politics you dumbfuck. Re-read my post.
When you get to the size of a monopoly like that, you operate on such a massive scale that your very existence as a company, and the actions required to grow and sustain it, is orders of magnitude more politcal than say, the small-scale relationship between a restaurant owner and their employees, which is also inherently politcal.
Again, I’m not saying you guys are wrong. What I’m saying is that the point of the meme is NOT political in nature.
But I think they’re political. Is my opinion on what is and is not political invalid for some objective reason?
You’re entitled to your opinion. It doesn’t make it less wrong though, the content of the memes is clearly not political.
Can you provide an objective reason why my thoughts on this are wrong?
Acknowledging the fact that politics exist is not inherently political. Please explain how that third meme is even remotely political?
Regardless, the lack of a clear and simple political-or-not binary is not an excuse to avoid moderation. The political nature of some things will be argued and some things will slip through the cracks. It happens with all spectrums. But on the other hand, some things are so clearly political that it’s nigh impossible to argue they’re not. I’m sure you can see the massive difference in a meme about Microsoft shoes and a meme about Trump or Biden bad. Those clear extremely political memes are the ones people want banned to their own communities.
And to be clear, I actually like political memes. I just find your rebuttal to be in bad taste.
They are wrong because those memes aren’t politic. They are not mentioning any party or political affiliation in any way.
Do companies influence politics? Absolutely. But that’s not the point of the meme.
Not upset, just suspicious because I’ve seen you asking that question a lot.
Obviously what I consider political is up to my discretion, but I’m pretty sure the general definition does not include contentious memes, and mine doesn’t either because I gave a clause about one side considering the other side evil because of it.
In general, if a person asks themselves “is what I’m posting political?” they can answer correctly 95% of the time, and the 5% of edge cases won’t upset 95% of the complainers.
That’s an awful lot of words to implicitly say “it’s not political if I agree with it”
“If a person asks themselves is this political they can answer correctly 95% of the time.”
Yea turns out it’s easier to answer a question correctly if you’re deciding I’d the answer is right or not.
Where are you getting that?
Where you said your test is asking yourself if you thought it was political and saying you were right 95% of the time.
What I meant was that anyone can ask themselves if it’s political, and 95% of the time they’ll get it right by the standards of 95% of the people who don’t like politics.
youre gonna have to get more specific there. what part of American “culture” grinds your gears and you want to see less of?
skibidi toilet memes are american culture and thus political
i don’t make the rules
How is everyone supposed to know what parts of reality and conceivable concepts are political to you and which parts of it are just the political status quo norms that you’re so comfortable with that you don’t notice it the way a fish doesn’t notice water?
Political memes are memes. sorry you dont like it sweetie
“Please keep your demonstration within the designated Free Speech Area”
Exactly! Just like how nobody was saying Rosa Parks couldn’t ride the bus. She would have gotten to her destination anyway had she just ridden at the back like we requested!
political memes are not comparable to segregation wtf, i dont mean to friendly fire but this take is not the dunk you think it is
You’re right. Wanting people who make you uncomfortable to go to their own area so that you don’t have to see them or think about their political grievances has no parallels with segregation.
Look, yes obviously as socialists we are not welcome in most public places if we speak out, but of all places to make that claim Lemmy.ml is not the one. The mods here are comrades. This is, next to hexbear and grad, probably one of the online spaces most receptive to us. The
you were replying to has no institutional power against us at all. I hate to tone police but posting on Lemmy is not comparable to being Rosa Parks and trying to make a tortured analogy isn’t helping anyone.
The atomic unit of propaganda is emphasis. If you force people to stop posting “political” memes in the main memes space then you are implicitly taking the stance is that “non-political” memes are normal and “political” memes are the other. Everyone intuitively understands that being othered is not desirable because the advocates for separation are not the ones volunteering to create their own apolitical memes space, they’re trying to get political memes ejected from the mainstream space.
Of course this isn’t literal segregation, but the arguments for separation basically all boil down to “go to this separate but equal space and stay there” so if they don’t want to be compared to people who historically made the same argument, they should try coming up with a different argument.
I prefer the term lemming, thank you.
: )
Not from Hexbear, do I get to respond?
Nice.