I am so sad that the mass protests had no effect. Poor Iranian people, especially women. What can anyone do to free them?
Conservatism is a global plague. Pacifism has never worked to cure this disease. Until the normal people rise up and do the horrific dirty work needed to erase this disease, it will continue to infect and kill.
The cure is not clean, but history has proven that conservatism is a fatal disease when left untreated.
The protests weren’t peaceful. They were riotous. It didn’t work, unfortunately.
I’m aware. And I am heart-broken. The violence, unfortunately, must involve not stopping until the conservatives no longer exist in any position of power. Extreme violence with a lack of mercy may be required. I don’t think the Iranian people really have that in them. I hope I am proven wrong some day. This government was foisted upon them by us. This conservative government was not entirely the people’s fault in this case.
For the rest of us, wherever the conservative disease persists, the natural result will always be brutal oppression of the vulnerable. Always. A cure must be administered long before the disease becomes this advanced.
They didn’t work because they weren’t fighting Islam they were fighting a more extreme version of it. Diet Islam vs Real Islam = Real Islam winning.
Successful revolutions it is trivial to name Atheist/Diest leaders.
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If the cure for violence is more violence, are you really solving anything?
I mean yes.
Fair enough, violence away and we’ll see how it plays out.
I was heartened to hear about the people keeping up the public opposition of the clerics, beyond knocking off their turbans. I hope that the clerics understand that their time is passing and that they are shaking in their sandals with the very realistic fear that they will continue to get randomly gunned down by the people anytime an opportunity presents it. Fuck theocratic Islam and all other exclusivist religions.
Even the Gulanist movement from Turkey, who likes to put on a friendly face to the western world, is exclusivist – if pressed, their real opinions come through their strategic friendly face da’wah, e.g., it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”
it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”
Exclusivist meaning? Because while I would hesitate to call anyone a heretic as a Muslim I can think of quite a few reasons someone would call Sufis that.
Yes, because you apparently hold exclusivist ideas about what a “real muslim” is. Religious exclusivity is where you believe your way is the only way to a proper relationship with “god,” that non-members of your group are doomed in some way or another, and that atheists and those religions that don’t believe in the Abrahamic God are especially doomed.
Oh, that’s what you meant. That’s… uh… how religions work in general? Like yeah if that’s the meaning then not being exclusivist is just kufr. The only weird part that you consider being exclusivist such a bad thing.
Believe it or not, that is not how religions work in general. Not that you could tell over the noise of the fundamentalist evangelical christians, but major Christian denominations are no longer exclusivist, no longer believe that any religious text is divinely inspired and flawless, gave up the iron age notion of women as so much chattel entirely subject to the will of men, etc. Judaism is largely NOT exclusivist though the orthodox believe that Jews should be observant to their interpretation of the jewish law.
The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
That’s true.
Buddhism, at least in some of its forms, isn’t like that. For example, Zen Buddhism would absolutely not endorse the suggestion that Zen Buddhists know something others don’t know, or have anything special, or have a special technique, or can come to gain or achieve something special that sets them apart from others. If you wander towards any of these ideas you’d be very clearly missing the point.
Start by protesting religion in your own country. Religion is bad everywhere. If some crazy groups want to believe in fairies, that’s ok, just do it in your home and don’t bring it out of there.
Publicly putting groups in your cross hairs tends to motivate said group.
Motivates said group to what?
Whatever they perceive as defensive measures. Rallying against those they are threatened by, recruiting, doubling down on their commitment and beliefs.
Then the government must take stricter measurements against said groups. Lets see who lose at the end.
What can anyone do to free them?
Arm them.
How do you get the arms to them?
Well step 1 should not be selling drugs in Latin America. We already tried that.
I think they had a very large effect, hence this pathetic pushback from the govt.
What can anyone do to free them?
The problem is religion. The best way to deconvert people is to show them that you can function without skydaddy. Allah (as a concept) has always been a narcissist, you are nothing without it.
Me personally if I was given the task I would move billions into generating content showing people of Iranian background living normal lives with diet-Islam to no-Islam. From movies and TV, to hiring Instagramers. An ocean of content being pumped into there every year.
I think the problem is the US-installed dictatorship, but I could be wrong Idk.
Absolutely. It was space vegan socialism humanist utopian paradise prior to 1953. Such a fine year 1953, my parents wouldn’t be born for a decade and they are grandparents now. That was the also the moment Islam developed all of its problems, you see there was no slaves, or gender oppression, or bigotry, or war, or dictatorships for 1300 years. Nope just utter paradise for 13 centuries.
Why is the standard a perfect society instead of societies from the same time period?
skydaddy I Lollled a bit 🤣🤣 🤣
Thanks, wish I could claim to have coined the term. Such an improvement over “heavenly father”.
Religion of peace
This is wrong by an islamic standpoint. Go to reddit with this bs… Life isnt that simple you 🤡
“This is wrong by an islamic standpoint” why don’t you go and say that in Iran, Brunei, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan (or practically any country with an islamic majority), your point of view will surely be much appreciated. Oh and do you remember when a bomb was thrown at the headquarters of a French magazine, killing 12 people, because they drew mohamed? Good times…
(or practically any country with an islamic majority),
Oh you mean like Indonesia, Malaysia and all of North Africa? You’re free to be an ignorant Islamophobe, but please do it after using Google for five seconds.
so now the exception is the majority? And Islamophobe it was created to deflect any criticism of islam, I say it’s wrong to throw a bomb and kill 12 because someone drew a picture of mohamed and I’m islamophobic, if I say it’s wrong to give 74 lashes because someone doesn’t agree with your religion and I’m islamophobic, if I say it’s barbaric to behead someone because they spoke against islam and I’m islamophobic, “everything I don’t like is is islamophobia”. Come up with better arguments instead of using buzzwords.
And I’m against all religions, especially Abrahamic ones, don’t think Islam is special just because I’m criticizing it here.
And Islamophobe it was created to deflect any criticism of islam,
No, it was created because people like you hate Muslims, and we needed a term for that. Or are you somehow denying that Muslims experience discrimination based on their religion (if only we had a term for that, maybe something starting with Islam and ending with phobia)?
Either way I don’t intend to pursue this conversation any further, but if your answer to my question is yes (and even if it’s no, really), you need to interact more with the outside world.
“Either way I don’t intend to pursue this conversation any further” then there’s nothing more to be said, why answer if you don’t want to discuss it? do you want attention?
Does not change anything about what i said. Religion has nothing to do with any of this, these countries would still be shitholes even if it never existed, but sure keep telling yourself what you want, makes it easier
“Religion has nothing to do with any of this” fck… what does it have to do with then? what practical reason do you have to force people to follow rules from an old book full of bullshit?
İran has been muslim for quite some time, was it always as it is right now? Do you seriously think that islam is the only factor here? Think a little bit for yourself
Hijab is not mandatory in Pakistan, you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about
No, you that have no idea what you’re talking about, where did I say about hijab? I’m talking about 74 lashes for not agreeing with something. The issue here is this medieval culture of imposing nonsense based on an old book written by ignorant bedouins living in the middle of the desert, and barbarically punishing anyone who doesn’t agree with that nonsense.
If in Pakistan, a democratic Muslim-majority country, hijab is not mandatory, then what makes you think a majority of Muslims agree with what this poor woman is going through? Hijab is also not mandatory in Turkey, Indonesia, and Morocco, but go on ahead and tell me how all Muslims are blood thirsty savages. Plenty of Muslims protested against the hijab in Iran just last year, but go on ahead and tell me how they support this woman’s sentencing. After all, according to you, a vast majority of Muslims wish harm on women who decide not to wear a hijab.
what’s your fixation with hijabs? who’s talking about hijabs? can you read? read again what I wrote above.
She is getting 74 lashes for not wearing a hijab, what in the world are you going on about? You’re trying to say that what she is going through is Islamic and there are plenty of arguments all throughout this comment section proving that it has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, yet you keep on going on about how evil they are and how they approve of her fate. I suggest you take a reading comprehension test, or better yet, stop trying to purposefully obfuscate your argument as it becomes more and more untenable.
You definitely convinced me.
I dont need to convince you, believe what you want. Im just telling you that youre wrong
This is wrong by an islamic standpoint.
The part about it being the religion of peace? Yeah we noticed.
Wait, people actually still get lashes?? What fucking year is this
Lashes is for the lucky ones.
The less lucky ones get hanged. And if you think hanged as in a quick drop and neck snap, no. They hang you slowly with a crane so that you suffer more, that is required by
Darth vaderthe ayatollah…Fuck everything about those religious zealot nut cases
It’s the age where in many muslim countries, if you say something even mildly critical about the ruling class or the priests or Islam, there’s a very high risk of being executed for it.
In Muslim countries it’s always the middle ages
yeah welcome to the real world
More like the modern dark ages
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A religion where women are beaten and people are blown up for fun. Islam is like a cancer of all modern religions. I must check how many down votes I get in next 12h.
cancer of all modern religions
Meh, they’re all pretty bad imo
Modern Religion is an oxymoron
Oh none from me, though I’d pool just about every other religion in with that. They’re all shit in their own ways. The concept of a modern religion also makes no sense, by their nature religions are archaic power tools used to control the masses against their individual will via their collective will.
A religion where women are beaten and people are blown up for fun.
I’ll just say that we (well most of us) also hate the people who do these things. I’ll also say that you’re a bigot.
Women is generally treated like trash in Islam. Women who follow Islam also like to be treated like trash. It’s part of the Islam. Oh yeah, tell me how in Islam it is believed that women is unsafe without it’s men. This religion is sexist as fuck.
The only valid option muslims would do is to drop any religion and be atheists. Atheism is the only “religion” where you follow your morals and not some fantasy book written by some randoms.
“We are struggling against sanctions and need to build our own capacities up and become more independent.”
“Better attack the people we need to do it then. A piece of cloth is more important than our survival.”
so much fuss over a hat,please muslims, make it make sense. why is it a female’s job to worry about your stupid ass erections?
Dont say muslims, i dont give a shit what you think this is OBVIOUSLY not what the majority of muslims want or support. This isnt even right in the most literal islamic pov
Would you kindly explain how the no true Scotsman fallacy applies here?
It is explained for 5 yearolds in the article.
The people doing this are muslims doing it in the name of Islam. If you’re only defence is that they’re not “real” muslims then youre what the fallacy is talking about.
I’m not saying they’re not real Muslims, but that doesn’t mean all Muslims, or Islam as a whole, is like that. Actions of the minority don’t define the majority, or else they’d be just that: A majority.
The silence of the mayority is complicit approval
And Mohamed can take his shit book and push it right up his pedophile ass
Yeah nah over a billion people dont have to speak up because of actions like this in random ass countries, especially a shia country, that mist wouldn’t even consider muslim…
if its not what they want why is it happening? complicit by apathy, so long as you aren’t getting lashed
You didn’t answer my question; Why is she being lashed for not wearing a hat?
It’s Muslim Rules she is breaking.
Why is the hat so scandalous as to invoke such a punishment?
Let me make this a mirror for just a second, imagine, if you can, that instead of this woman being lashed, it was you being lashed for not wearing a hat. How would that make you feel?
Again no, there is no such rule. You can not enforce Islam and you can not punish someone for not following it with lashes, such things are forbidden.
so why is she getting lashed due to islamic law?
Just because they claim that doesnt make it actually 100% islamic dumbass tf
ards…man…why cant you see this woman is suffering due to muslims and islamic law…why are you so apathetic?
you really would rather argue with me than feel a shred of empathy for this woman who is being lashed in iran. due to muslim and Islamic law.
just because you don’t want it to be doesn’t make it actually not islam tf
How tf do you even get a thought like ? It really impresses me You willingly misinterpret what im saying
Islam is a religion built on and applied with the sword of ‘comply or die’. seriously. wake the fuck up. muslims are like a modern version of Nazis. so many want to say they are good, but explain Iran. go ahead. not only will i wait. i want you to move there.
A country of barbarians.
every religious-led country is a country of barbarians.
it is the human collective absolving themselves of responsibility in liue of some greater power
religion is a transmissible poison that must be removed, like cigarettes
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This isn’t specific to Islam. This is what theocracy looks like. Very few religions are fit doctrines on which to run a country. There are plenty of American Christians who would have me killed for who I am.
The US was ~90% Christian until recently. Same with our elected officials, bad things happen from time to time and stupid laws, but the rate of attrocious incidents like this are far less. You could argue it’s cultural, not based in religious text, but tell that to apostates that fear for their lives.
I think Christianity can be used as the banner for an archaic regime just as easily as Islam. It hasn’t mostly because Christian majority countries happen to have moved on to science, industry and commerce. Middle East countries have been so actively fucked with by the west that they really can’t climb that ladder, except the ones that have some stability thanks to having a monarch defended by the west. Iran’s holy revolution was a response to a US puppet ruler. Afghanistan has been kept in the dark ages by constant war fueled by western states. Yemen has been brutalized by the Saudis without repercussion because the West protect the Saudis.
So who are really the barbarians in this picture? The west enjoy all the trappings of a modern society but the games they play with other regions in the world are beyond barbaric: the barbarism is just more obscured and geographically removed.
Throw some bombs at Mississippi, kill the bulk of their leadership, and they’ll be hanging queers in a week. I have been attacked in public by an American Christian extremist; I sometimes get to fear for my life right here in the Midwest. Put these people in a state of desperation, and it’ll be a swampy theocracy in no time. America is ~250 years into running a country that was founded on not having a state religion. That’s a far cry from a theocracy founded under violent foreign interference less than a century ago, and we still have dangerous religious extremists. It’s not a matter of culture. It’s a matter of circumstance.
Mississippi, Alabama, and Missouri are 100% archaic Christian shithole countries that are just propped up by virtue of being US states. The religious stranglehold is just as real.
To be honest I’ve avoid that region pretty much entirely because that’s the impression I have as well.
The descriptions I hear about conservatism down there are wild.
Mate. The Christian religion spawns YE creationists. Thoughts and prayers for the victims of avoidable massacres. Life sentences of servitude for mothers of rape babies. Life sentences of fear for gay people.
All religion is twisted. Why pick on one or another? They all need to go.
Holy shit is 74 lashes even survivable?? I feel like it would flay the flesh off
hisher back and never recover, die from infection or something. Not a doctor and not a torturer so idk.Her back. It was a female engineer protesting being forced to wear a hijab.
My mistake, misread the post thanks. Horrible, poor woman.
From what I understand they can stretch that over multiple sessions. No idea if they have a fixed set of lashes per session or if they simply stop when a doctor signals it gets problematic and continue when the wounds have somewhat started to heal.
It’s actually a pretty common punishment in Iran so should be survivable for most people, or people would revolt if their teenager lashed to death for drinking alcohol.
Obligatory what Iran is doing makes no fucking sense.
That aside, lashing in Islam doesn’t mean lashing with all your strength and ripping the flesh off the guy you’re lashing. There are a lot of restrictions to make the process painful, but survivable without permanent injuries.
Fuck any religion that posits death or beating for anyone. Fuck any religion that teaches women are subservient to men. I don’t give a flying fuck about “a lot of restrictions” – fuck this brutal religion.
This may be my ignorance speaking, but I’d far rather be lashed than imprisoned.
I’d rather see the clerical leadership publicly executed for their crimes against humanity and Iranians be free from the boot of oppression.
Idk why you’re downvoted for this. I would too.
I once headbutted a cop while already in jail, and they just took me to a side room and beat the shit out of me (I was still handcuffed), and I’d take that over “assault on an officer” charge 100 times out of 100.
I’m certain this is vastly worse than what I got, but I’d still rather be whipped than imprisoned. I don’t do well behind bars.
Depends on the lashing.
https://www.history.com/news/whipped-peter-slavery-photo-scourged-back-real-story-civil-war
Someone asked a question and I answered. What are you so upset about?
I don’t think they’re upset at you, just in general.
Uh, I’m upset about religions that teach people women are not worthy of being on the same level as men. I’m upset that certain countries beat the crap out of people to dissuade then from opposing the decisions of their ruling oligarchs…
*typos
I’m upset at the use of obligatory
It’s because without mentioning that part I’ll get a whole bunch of FUCK YOU BARBARIAN YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED blah blah blah because it can sound like I’m defending what Iran is doing at first glance.
And muslisms in france don’t understand the ban of hijabs in schools. This is why.
Talk about a non-sequitor.
Explain?
You’re basically saying France that banning hijab somehow has anything to do with not becoming a dictatorship.
It is banning a religious ideal imposed by an opressive reliegion. It has anything to do with not becoming a dictatorship.
This is how a dictatorship look like: “Iranian Enginner who protested forced hijab sentenced to 74 lashes”
I was told that it was a ban on all religious symbols and it wasn’t a targetted attack on a minority group. Now you are saying it is targeted.
Are we doing the “say the quite part loud” now?
When did I say it was targeted?
You implied it. "banning a religious ideal imposed by an opressive reliegion. "
You’re still not actually supporting that claim. I guess this is what it looks like when you haven’t reasoned your way into a position.
By the way, there’s a reason democracies tend to value freedom of religion.
Is anyone banning people from being Muslims? Let me know and I’ll go protest for them to the streets.
Seriously, this is the best you came up with? Technically being Muslim isn’t banned in China either. Preventing people from harmlessly practicing their religion is also against freedom of religion.
France is doing the right thing by banning religions in schools. Science and religion has nothing in common. Period.
Wait what??? But my college buddy who fell down the ruzzian propaganda pipeline tells me the west is evil and Iran is actions of the most moral countries out there!!
Jfc
All religion is fucking useless Jai sree ram jai sree ram 😼🚶 Anyone knows about Dinkoism ? Its a parody religion from kerala
That’s actually really interesting. I wonder if any religious folks are able to deconstruct their own beliefs after seeing this movement.
Iran, such a innocent country, the regime, victims of the evil west…
When I read the title I just imagined how society there is stuck in the medieval ages… just a sad state of affairs…
As others have mentioned, others get far worse, being hung from cranes on a daily bases, most of them Kurds for seeking their freedoms.
Can Iran not be a victim of the west but also wrong in their treatment of women?
Society isn’t stuck in the medieval ages there. It’s cruel, sure. But they have phones, coffee and automatic weapons just like everyone else, so they’re firmly in the same age as everyone else.
This woman is using her privilege as a prominent(ish) figure to highlight the injustices prevalent in Iran, so she’s unlikely to get the worse punishments you’ve mentioned. I say fair play to her and I hope more people get to speak out.
Sadly, though, history tells us that dictators can do whatever the fuck they like to their own people with no repercussions.Yes they can be the victim of the west and also terrible. But you have to ask yourself if the meddling of the west helped create the conditions for this terribleness. My recollection is that the mullahs staged a revolt to oust a US-installed puppet regime.
I don’t think that question will have a remotely simple answer.
As broadly as I phrased it, it’s really pretty simple. The answer is yes.
You’re right. Did it help? Absolutely. But it’s such a complex situation that I reckon no single human fully understands how, or the interplay between that and all of the other factors at play.
And from there, moving towards a place where there is justice/fairness is impossible because a consensus on what that even means is impossible. It’s incredibly depressing.It’s toxic is what it is. You could pour goodness and light into it for a century and the hatred and division would just eat it up and shit it out. The west has fucked the region royally. They’ve also fucked themselves and each other royally.
It’s an evil theocratic dictatorship, but do you know how it got that way? There was a revolution opposing a US puppet ruler. The west would like all Middle East nations to be like the Saudis: nice, stable petro states who are compliant for the most part and who cares what happens there internally. But this formula has gone wrong several times (Iran) or the west hasn’t tried as hard to achieve stability because the oil incentive isn’t there (Syria) or the borders were specifically drawn to crate instability (Iraq).
There’s no pointing fingers at the Middle East without acknowledging the culpability of the UK, France, Russia and the USA in their horrid dysfunction. Understanding this is a rite of passage. Children point and hoot about the horrible Arabs. Adults know what’s actually up with that part of the world.
Interesting. Did the evil west make the islamists purge their leftist allies after the shah was deposed in the glorious revolution?
Don’t try to turn me into someone saying that everything is western corruption and nothing is the fault of the nationals themselves.
That’s a textbook straw man. Have fun beating it up.
Yeah it’s all the west’s fault
Give me a fucking break, the west isn’t responsible for them treating women like literal trash for hundreds of years
No, just for creating the conditions that allowed the mullahs to seize power. You know that the vast majority of Iranians hate the dictatorship, right? Everything they do is to control their internal population. A lot of people who would never call themselves feminists suddenly care about women’s rights when it privides a way for them to unleash their hatred on Iranians.
Several comments on the “real” Islam, sad…
OK… Can we free Assange or Snowden?
There’s no ‘freeing’ Snowden. He dumped US intel, got scared, and decided to move to Russia of all places, where he couldn’t be charged or extradited. He has now lived there for a significant portion of his life. For the entire war against Ukraine. If he were half as critical of Russian or Chinese spying as he is American, I might see things differently. Point is, he made his own choices and moves a long time ago. His allegiances are clearly elsewhere. Maybe he was dumb enough to believe the Russians and Chinese respect privacy more than Americans.
I’d rather see Navalny freed.
He didn’t decide to move to Russia. The US revoked his passport during his layover while he was en route to Ecuador.
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I don’t think you can say he didn’t make the decision to move to Russia at some point. You don’t get there accidentally, and his decisions most certainly brought him there. And that’s where he lives and has lived for many years now. I think you can see the hypocrisy of the situation. If he did what he did in America in Russia, he’d be dead. If he were FSB and leaked internal Russian intelligence, they would kill him. If government spying is his concern, he moved to the worst place, and practices very selective criticism. That’s primarily what I take issue with.
TIL that having your passport revoked while you are traveling is the same thing as intentionally moving somewhere
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TIL you can also practice selective reading. Why do you think he hasn’t criticized the Russian government?
If anyone is interested, here’s what really happened:
“On June 21, 2013, the United States Department of Justice unsealed charges against Snowden of two counts of violating the Espionage Act of 1917 and theft of government property, following which the Department of State revoked his passport. Two days later, he flew into Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport, where Russian authorities observed the canceled passport, and he was restricted to the airport terminal for over one month. Russia later granted Snowden the right of asylum with an initial visa for residence for one year, which was subsequently repeatedly extended. In October 2020, he was granted permanent residency in Russia. In September 2022, Snowden was granted Russian citizenship by President Vladimir Putin, and on December 2, 2022 he swore the oath of allegiance.”
Lmao thanks for writing the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.
You’re welcome, asshole.
