• orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org
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    1 year ago

    Are you aware that it’s possible to want neither NATO tanks nor Russian tanks in Ukraine?

    I am.

    But do you believe Ukraine is able to maintain their territory protected from Russia without NATO’s weapon supply?

    • Sphere [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      He most likely doesn’t believe Ukraine is able to maintain their territory protected from Russia with NATO’s weapon supply, and for good reason, given how clearly this is demonstrated by the utter failure of the vaunted counter-offensive. The only thing your position is really advocating is the useless deaths of vast numbers of Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter).

      • The only thing your position is really advocating is the useless deaths of vast numbers of Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter). [emphasis mine]

        They never admit it, but the fact that Russian deaths will continue is one of if not the main reason these NATO dronies are fine with sacrificing the lives of all those Ukrainians they pretend to care about. Spoiler warning: they don’t actually care about Ukrainians. But they’ll still couch it in terms as if they’re “supporting Ukraine.” Such “Ukraine supporters” are either completely, pathetically fooled by obvious NATO propaganda or they are just bloodthirsty bigots (or both, which is most often the case).

    • trot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      No, just as it would be unable to resist NATO in being turned into a far-right paramilitary-led banana republic if Russia were to suddenly withdraw without any decrease in NATO involvement.

      But the beauty of the neat little trick above is that if the working classes of both sides correctly oppose their respective ruling classes’ interests, we can end up with a scenario where both sides lose - objectively the best outcome for the Ukrainian people, as well as everyone else.

      The Russian anti-war activists are clearly holding up their end of the bargain. Why are you not holding up yours?

      • CamaradeBoina [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Exactly this.

        Revolutionary defeatism is the name of the word. Those who should be concerned with Russian imperialism must be russian working class people.

        We in the west have to fight against our own imperalists. It’s very simple and in the end very logical.

      • orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        The Russian anti-war activists are clearly holding up their end of the bargain. Why are you not holding up yours?

        Ah! To be young and naive enough to believe that the anti-war activists in Russia have any leverage. They will all end up in Siberia or jumping out of a window.

        Any regime change in Russia will come from the oligarchs, and the Russian working class will still be in a bad position (if not worse).

        • trot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          They did quite well in WW1.

          Speaking of that, was the Entente was completely justified in sending millions to die in the war? After all, previously you said:

          I’m sorry, but when it involves one imperialist bloc invading a smaller country, then it does matter.

          Not even one, but two smaller countries! Think of little Belgium and Serbia!

        • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          To be young and naive enough to believe that the anti-war activists in Russia have any leverage

          funny how shitlibs like you will gladly say stuff like this while in the very same breath talking about how russians are all evil orcs for genociding the smol bean ukranians and they need to be wiped out

          also the “oh i am so worldly and wise” liberal condescension act is beyond tired. if you’re so old and venerable then just fucking die already, ghoul.

          • orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org
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            1 year ago

            also the “oh i am so worldly and wise” liberal condescension act is beyond tired. if you’re so old and venerable then just fucking die already, ghoul.

            😘