I didn’t read it yet is it good lol 
Yes, it is true - if you look at the numbers as a whole, China does emit more carbon than America. But what constantly goes artfully elided in these statements is that their carbon emissions PER CAPITA is WAY lower than America’s. Of course they emit more carbon, like four times as many people live there. But what China doesn’t have are single individuals driving military grade gas guzzling SUVs two blocks to buy groceries twice a week. Also, most of their emissions come from industrial plants that produce all of the goods whose production WE OUTSOURCE TO THEM. The only reason their carbon emissions are so high is because western capitalists realized it’d be cheaper to move production there than keep them in the first world. Also, Bernie, who is making a massive investment in green energy? I’ll give you a hint, it’s only one of these countries. So it should be less about “America and China need to put aside their differences and work together”, a statement that tacitly implies that there’s something China isn’t doing that they need to start, and more about “America needs to catch the fuck up to China’s massive pivot toward green energy”.
China does emit more carbon than America. But what constantly goes artfully elided in these statements is that their carbon emissions PER CAPITA is WAY lower than America’s.
I spam this vijay prashad clip at people any time someone brings up china’s emissions
Even more compelling than the total versus per capita distinction is the cumulative vs annual distinction. If we just go with annual, China looks way worse. But it’s important to remember that countries like England industrialized an entire century earlier than China did.
Prashad is so good
two blocks
more like 40 minutes and 30 miles
1300 CE: swarthy merchant man do math with symbol instead of tally. John be like swarthy man!
2023 CE: more people do more thing! How that work!??!?!!!Chinese are obsessed with big cars just like the US. Many German marques have China exclusive models like “L” version for more popular models which not just longer but also heavier
1 in 4 cars sold in China in 2022 were EVs, and China has more than 50% of global share of EVs. Anecdotally, even with Chinese cars that aren’t EVs, it’s pretty rare to see the massive trucks or SUVs that are more common in the US, though they do exist. Also if you look at total car ownership per capita, China (226 vehicles per 1000 people) is well below the US (908 vehicles per 1000 people).
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most without a scratch in their bed
I’m not sure I’ve ever actually seen a truly big truck that gets used for anything productive. The trucks that are actually used for real work all seem to be non-fancy mid or small size pickups.
interesting stats, thanks for the information
But the government actually cares about stamping down on cars. Congestion policy in big cities is actively hostile to cars.
I saw so many fucking buicks there
But also the trains are so, so good.
their railway is arguably their government’s best modern project, will literally pay dividends for decades to come. uplifted so many people from poverty and improving social mobility. say what you want about the lack of freedom there, gotta hand it to their government for getting shit done sometimes.
It’s so pleasant to ride too. So smooth you can’t even feel it accelerate, plenty of legroom even for tall foreigners, lots of outlets and the cell service is rock solid the whole way
Gotta say, The Governance of China hits different on a Fuxing Hao at 350km/h
China is more free than America
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“Bruh” When did i say that? merely drawing parallels that Chinese people love big cars just like people in US.
tho they don’t have huge pick up trucks and what not last time i was there. And what’s so good about US car culture anyway, most people are driving around in Altimas and Camrys.
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respond to pooh’s stats
i have bruh
thank you :bruh:
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You’re right, I was unnecessarily hostile. I’ve been antagonistic all day, and it’s not right
you: puts a photo of your mum as response
also you: WheN You EngAge in Bad-FaiTh diScuSsiOn
You’re really lacking for reading comprehension.
You were already here -> When you engage in bad-faith discussion
Respond to pooh stats if you have anything to say.i already have ya creep
you’re resorting to ad-hominem but you’re accusing me of engaging in “bad-faith” discussion WHEN you are the relentless one hounding me non-stop. I’m fucking eating my guy, you expect me to engage you like a keyboard warrior at a moments notice? i don’t ahve to work or eat or do other adult stuff?
I never knew that, so thanks for letting me know, but be that as it may, there exists far less car dependent infrastructure in China. In America, that giant car is your only option. In China, you usually have way more sustainable options, which we see reflected in their lower carbon emissions per capita.
In China, you usually have way more sustainable options, which we see reflected in their lower carbon emissions per capita.
True that, they are leading the EV game. Even Audi is forming a JV with state-owned SAIC. I believe Volkswagen is doing the same thing with another Chinese EV company.
EVs still cars, still bad.
But China is also leading the micromobility game, with fast, cheap, and powerful escooters, EUCs, eskate, and so on.
cars are not inherently bad, it’s only bad when you have a government that entirely expect people to rely on cars as a transport. I would argue for big countries like US and China, car is still the way to go. But public infrastructure ie. public transport has to keep up as well to give people an option. A
lso micromobility only works in urban centres. I live in suburbs myself, i can kinda use my e-scooter as a last mile transport solution but anything more than 5km i would say it’s a bit of a stretch.
cars are inherently bad demolish the suburbs
Most based 1 day account
The vast majority of people in China don’t own cars and don’t live in suburbs, most people live in apartment complexes where everyday services are within 20 minutes walk from their building.
Like American car culture is completely unsustainable in China. China right now has a 1/4 of the per capita car ownership of the US and they have some of the worst congestion in the world. Beijing and many other large cities only allow people to drive their cars two or three days out of the week. They base it off the last number on your license plate, and the cops will stop and potentially impound your car if you are driving on the wrong day. And this policy has like 90% support becuase of how bad traffic is otherwise.
Cars fucking suck, and the only reason they don’t is that we’ve designed a world where they’re necesay.
Edit: “Big countries” like us and china are exactly the places that could most benefit from non-car infrastructure. Having high-speed-rail connect the country instead of highways is in all ways a better solution.
It is a more efficient way of transporting both goods and people, with less maintenance required, and expansion being less costly, and space being less of a demand.
The only thing cars are optimal for is “last mile delivery” and even then there is often a better solution - micromobility like bikes, escooters and the like for people.
The only reason we think cars are “good” is because they solve issues that come as a result of making a csr-centric society.ok, don’t drive or ride in a car then
I was thinking more along the lines of trains and other public transportation options.
71% of Chinese people own a car, 92% of American people own a car. The US is the highest car ownership rate on Earth outside of tiny little rich countries like Liechtenstein and San Marino. China is number 94 beneath the Dominican Republic, Syria, Malaysia, Bulgaria, Uruguay, etc.
If he was actually serious about it and not just grandstanding too he would be addressing America and America only, because he’s an American senator and can only impact American choices. His pushes for change need to be within America only. The only way an American senator exerts any power or influence in China is via imperialism, sanctions, economic violence. America doesn’t need to worry about what China is doing at all, it needs to look internally and fix itself. Bernie needs to shut the fuck up on the fence sitting and focus his efforts where they could actually have an impact if he really truly cared.
Okay after skimming through looks not so good even if the overall message is better than most politicians
In recent years, the rapidly growing Chinese economy has eclipsed the US as the world’s major carbon emitter. Right now, China is building six times as many coal-fired power plants as the rest of the world combined – the equivalent of two new coal plants every week. Last year, they quadrupled the number of new coal plants approved compared with 2021. Current plans will see China add as much new coal to its grid as used in all of India, the second largest coal user, and five times more coal capacity as the US.
It is no great secret the Chinese government is undertaking many policies that we and the international community should oppose. They are cruelly repressing and interning the Uyghurs, threatening Taiwan and stifling freedom of expression in Tibet and Hong Kong. China has bullied its neighbors, abused the global trading system, stolen technology and is building out a dystopian surveillance state.
Just awful
stolen technology lmao
“Only the white man possesses the creativity lobe, all other races can only produce lesser imitations of his works.” - a thing liberals actually believe but they’re totally not racist because they like Hamilton
dont make me tap the sign
“The Russians never invent anything. All they have, they’ve got from others. Everything comes to them from abroad—the engineers, the machine-tools. Give them the most highly perfected bombing-sights. They’re capable of copying them, but not of inventing them. With them, working-technique is simplified to the uttermost. Their rudimentary labour-force compels them to split up the work into a series of gestures that are easy to perform and, of course, require no effort of thought.” - Adolf Hitler
Weird how liberal thought keeps echoing Hitler. Ah well, I’m sure it’s just a coincidence
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The “stolen IP” story is fun because it represents an unstated assumption that only the West has good ideas.
When their years of long-term thinking and investment in R&D pay off, will the people kvetching today be willing to license Chinese designs?
I note that the new high speed rail project being promoted in Texas is based on old shinkansen designs from Japan; I wonder if it was just too much lost face to consider a CRH derived design?
It’s also fun because if it was true, it would be proof that the copyright and patent system is stifling for development, competition and innovation
who cares about stolen tech, even if they did that would be better for carbon emissions
noooooooooooooo! you’re solving the climate crisis but you stole our trademarked things to do it!!! you motherfuckers better put that carbon back in the air and do it the RIGHT way!
Love being a “life-long socialist” who values IP laws over human progress
How has he forgotten great Randian hero Elmo who keeps trying to steal WeChat and somehow instead blasts pollution all over the American southwest and gets 9000 FAA violations
China “stealing” tech is good, but most of the time this complaint isn’t even referring to IP infringement or anything clandestine. It’s just the tecg transfer agreements that companies happily sign in order to move production to China.
Referring to microchips maybe? Not technically incorrect but I’m confused why it’s “wrong”
I have not seen a single credible source that China stole technology for microchips
If you’re talking about that singular dude who stole from ASML then that’s just a dude
A dude that rocks, might I add
People also forget that the Snowden leaks revealed the NSA was conducting industrial espionage against companies in Europe and China that compete against US companies.
China accused them of the same thing recently: https://hexbear.net/comment/3707564
I believe they purchased chips from NVIDIA and AMD no? I see quite a few news stories upon a first duckduckgo but I’m not really sure what to believe on this one.
Anybody can buy chips from NVIDIA and AMD, I’m not sure I follow
I believe the suggestion is that they then reverse-engineered them and used what they learned in violation of IP law. I don’t follow this, so I don’t know if it’s true, and I would support China doing this because fuck those companies and the US, but I believe that’s the accusation.
Yea I mean I know China has reverse engineered a lot of Soviet and Russian weapons exports but I don’t think chips and semiconductors is the same since the difficulty is in manufacturing and not what’s in it
Companies generally have to transfer IP to even operate in China which is why the stealing IP generally doesn’t even have to happen
The more I thought about it, the less it made sense; at least how it was built up in my head.
They were just purchasing the chips, and now the USA is trying to block those purchases AND encroach all around the SEA sea while positioning China as aggressors.
Do no Chinese firms have schematics for the chips to be made in Taiwan? Or will this just force China to design their own based on the current top-of-the-line?
I’m not against it, I’m merely posturing questions to learn.
China is still using deep ultraviolet (DUV) chip etching which has a resolution of 193 nanometres, whereas the latest technology is extreme ultraviolet (EUV) which has a resolution of 13.5 nanometres. In practice it means they’re about four years behind the other chip manufacturers.
An EUV machine costs about $200 million and that’s the one banned for export to China.
Shipping the machine requires 40 shipping containers, 20 trucks and three Boeing 747s.
Having the schematics isn’t really enough - you also need the production lines and extreme tolerances to reliably build the machines.
Some chips are also export banned so Chinese firms have just been buying cloud time on the chips instead.
Longer term it is expected that China will develop a fully self sufficient semiconductor industry.
Semiconductors are hard.
First you need the lithography machines (ASML). Then you need the process development (TSMC, Samsung, Intel). Then you need the EDA tools (Synopsys, Cadence).
SMEE announced a 28nm-capable lithography machine, SMIC has a gimped 7nm process, and Huawei has EDA tools capable down to 14nm.
However, necessity is the mother of invention. I’m expecting the next few years to see an explosion in specialized hardware coming out of Chinese companies.
Nothing wrong with stealing technology unless you want to carry water for corporations and their billionaire executives. Regardless of that most of the technological progress in China comes from technology transfer agreements that they made with Western corporations for doing the manufacturing for them which is then layered on top with indigenous innovations.
Actually the largest technology transfer in history came from the Soviet technology transfer to China from 1949 to 1966 (until the Sino-Soviet split). The Soviets practically established modern scientific institutions and kickstarted the industrialization process in China.
The irony is that the rapid industrialization of Communist China was what made it so attractive to Western capital in the 1970s in the first place, which was used in turn to help destroy the Soviet Union.
stifling freedom of expression in Tibet, . . . abused the global trading system,
God damn what a fucking piece of shit he is. Not just the obligatory hits but really just slinging whatever he can fit in a sentence, plus going to bat for bad-faith accusations from protectionists.
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I cannot believe that Britain is accusing China of abusing the global trading system
In the sphere of world trade, Sanders masks a strident chauvinism with “human rights” rhetoric, particularly with respect to China. In 1992 he co-sponsored a bill, first proposed by Nancy Pelosi, and later vetoed by George H.W. Bush, attempting to restrict the trade status of China due to its human rights record. As always, the supreme “human right” was the right of American corporations to scour the globe in source of profit; one of the benchmarks that China would have been required to meet was to provide “United States exporters fair access to Chinese markets, including lowering tariffs, removing nontariff barriers, and increasing the purchase of United States goods and services.”
Sanders’ stance on immigration is entirely in line with right-wing efforts to scapegoat millions of impoverished and exploited Hispanic workers for the falling living standards of American working class. He has repeatedly introduced bills in Congress calling for the suspension of the federal visa program under the guise of protecting American jobs. For his efforts, he has earned the admiration of noted anti-immigrant racist and talk show host Lou Dobbs, who called him “one of the few straight talkers in Congress.”
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work with us you authoritarian monsters that must be destroyed!
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It’s almost as if he’s a USAmerican politician
A dystopian surveillance state… You mean like the US and UK?
Here I was thinking a dystopian surveillance state was a requirement for modernization. My bad.
:snowden:
Ok barnie sandler time to get in the can
shibbolibs
I mean, the coal thing is concerning. We really shouldn’t, as a species, be building any coal plants.
While this is true, it’s worth noting that around 30% of China’s power generation is renewables as of 2021 (which I don’t think includes nuclear), a number that has been steadily trending up (eg 26% in 2019), and that it is responsible for 45% of global investments in renewables. Compare that to the US which only produces 21% of its electricity from renewables as of 2021, and is the richest country on earth.
That’s great and I hope they shut down their coal plants as fast as possible
It’s nothing new
Wait but is china really building 2 coal plants per week on average tho? D:
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China invested several trillion dollars in combating climate change. Meanwhile the us has uhh signed a petition?
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And the carbon credits!
Which they sold to Ford and GM for profit!
I think
got a few hundred million in subsidies for bazinga LED-lit car tunnels.
“it would be nice for the States of the world to collaborate on large structural solutions to the existential crisis facing humanity, but it seems like many here have forgotten: China bad.”
we should cooperate, i.e unite our efforts towards climate mao.
As one weeby federated chudling put it yesterday, if you disagree with China bad, you are a Chinese bot.
No we must nuke them to defend our way of life (ordering doordash and watching netflix)
Putting a coin sized hole in the head of the top 10% of US earners would do more to combat climate change than any reasonable let alone possible government agreement and cooperation between the US and anyone else period.
I saw this new study going around, don’t know if someone else already posted here, I even thought about posting it myself but fucking doomerism preaching to the choir.
In 2019, fully 40% of total U.S. emissions were associated with income flows to the highest earning 10% of households. Among the highest earning 1% of households (whose income is linked to 15–17% of national emissions) investment holdings account for 38–43% of their emissions. Even when allowing for a considerable range of investment strategies, passive income accruing to this group is a major factor shaping the U.S. emissions distribution. Results suggest an alternative income or shareholder-based carbon tax, focused on investments, may have equity advantages over traditional consumer-facing cap-and-trade or carbon tax options and be a useful policy tool to encourage decarbonization while raising revenue for climate finance.
I say holes, lots and lots of holes, until that happens fuck these sucdem lib shitters.
Putting a coin sized hole in the head of the top 10% of US earners would do more to combat climate change than any reasonable let alone possible government agreement and cooperation between the US and anyone else period.
As cathartic as that would be, the exact opposite is true. If Jeff Bezos croaks today they don’t shut Amazon down, they just hire a new CEO and keep going. It’s the definition of a systemic problem.
I think the idea isn’t that they would just be randomly dying, it would be a warning to the rest of them
“If we give in it means the terrorists win”
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This is proven by the fact that Jeff bezos isn’t even the CEO anymore, it’s some other random guy and nothing has changed.
If you take the top 10% you get the entire executive suite tho
I mean top 10% is a LOT of people. That’s 35 million Americans lmao. Wiping out the entire ruling class of America at once would indeed fix many problems because it’s be such a sudden thing, but it would all fall into chaos if there wasn’t a revolutionary party there ready to seize power
Let’s team up for the assignment but I’ll do the bare minimum and get the grade
‘‘In recent years, both the US and China have greatly increased their military budgets.’’
The Chinese military budget increase is proportionate to their growth in GDP (the budget is around 2-3% IIRC).
Also let’s not talk about the ecological impact of the US army alone
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What a fucking loser
Bernie (lib) is also doing the “both sides” thing to an extent. China isn’t being nearly as militaristic as the US is. Not in terms of building military bases close to the US, or military spending, or just doing war crimes all over the world at this very moment.
yet another Bernie L
“We shouldn’t war with China, you guys are escalating to war”
“CHINA EVIL CPC UIGHUR HONK HONK XINNIE THE POO”
Liberals in a nutshell
When I make an appeal for cooperation with someone, I always include a litany of made up slander to smooth over the negotiating process. Like earlier today I said to my room mate “hey can you give me a ride? You can just drop me off on your way to molest children.”
I am typing this as I walk through the rain.
He’s negging China lmao
stolen technology and is building out a dystopian surveillance state
Their stolen technology and dystopian surveillance state.
Our disruptive innovators saving humanity by making a more human internet of everything to benefit all humans and make them better humans.
Go to sleep Bernard
🥰
Go away bernie, I can’t stand to look at you
Too bad this geriatric dipshit couldn’t muster up the energy to fight against his friend Biden to get the nomination. Fucking Bernie Sanders, Obama was the tragedy and you were the farce. As Mel Brooks said, “Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when you fall into an open manhole and die.” We’re all falling down that manhole, but I am glad that Sanders is here to remind us to try to grab on that maintenance ladder, while reminding us that it’s icky and possibly slimy.
Bernie it’s time for you to retire upstate
- > real Bernie.
