Electric cars are still cars, and therefore do fuck-all to fix the real problem of excessive use of land for parking lots, low-density zoning, and lack of walkability.
The only way to have communities that are healthy and sustainable (ecologically, financially, or otherwise) is to fix the zoning code so that folks don’t need to drive in the first place.
Or just reduce the need to drive, for example by encouraging remote work.
Oh man when almost everything was remote my commute was so nice. 12 miles in 15 - 17 minutes instead of almost double that everyday.
Unfortunately I operate a forklift so I have to be there in person but damn was it super nice.
Currently I’m trying to encourage and raise support for more bike infrastructure locally so it’s an actually viable option intead of it’s currently not so viable state.
Convert all the empty offices to apartments. Solves housing supply problems, makes a lot of dense units instead of sprawl, puts them right next to any of the offices that have reopened, and would make the owners of the office buildings happy so they’d hopefully get out of the way of WFH (if they’re doing any lobbying or propaganda or whatnot).
I know it’s too expensive to be worth it, but it’s a perfect thing for governments to give grants for since it has so many benefits.
It’s happening a bit in Canada.
Projects are undervway in Calgary and Halifax; others are being planned or debated in Toronto, London, Ont., and Yellowknife.
From here
one issue is that offices tend to have 1 bathroom per floor, and the internal plumbing to match, and apartments need roughly a bathroom every 4 rooms. That really matters when you have 15 floors and you’re adding inlet and outlets filled with water, it drastically affects the weight and design of the building.
it might be easier, cheaper and safer to demolish and rebuild rather than convert.
Multiple such projects are underway in my Midwestern US city.
That’s a great idea, I hope other communities follow.
That doesn’t fix any of the problems mentioned.
You can have healthy and sustainable communities without high density housing or any of the comforts of urban living. In fact, humans have lived in low density rural communities for thousands of years.
No. Humans have lived in walkable villages and towns built at missing middle densities (hundreds to a few thousand people and markets all within walking distance linked by long distance travel corridors you walked to or what you are calling ‘urban’) with local services and a handful of people living on the outskirts.
Endless suburban seas of <500 people per km^2 were invented for the automobile. The past you are counterfactually claiming exists did not have half an acre of roads, car parks, 4-car garages, set backs and car yards per resident, nor did it have all the services in a central gigantic box building 20 miles away through a sea of identical houses, nor did your rural people demand those in higher density regions provode them with infrastructure for heating, cooling, water and sewerage. Nor did they demolish all the houses around the market just in case they wanted to leave a cart there.
You have a very US-centric perspective on “sustainability”.
There are plenty of sustainable communities all over the world, today as in the past, that consist of 100s to 1000s of people living in low density housing within reach of a small center.
Some of their garages have two cars, some have only a moped, and some have no vehicles at all.
They are generally rural, not suburban. Not all are near big box stores. Those with big box stores existed before the big box stores arrived, and they would continue to exist if the big box stores left.
Their existence does not necessarily depend on support from higher density regions, especially in parts of the world where higher density regions will ignore their requests anyway.
These are the walkable non-suburban communities being talked about. Why are you trying to use examples of the desired outcome as a counter example (and reason to continue destroying said towns)?
I am responding to the suggestion that only high-density communities are sustainable. That’s simply not true. It is possible for people to live sustainably in either low density or high density communities.
Which in turn implies that the problem with suburbs is not necessarily their density, but other factors.
If you take both the population and area of greater houston without the urban core, there is one hectare of suburban wasteland per person.
One person per hectare isn’t the rural settlement in your imagined past, it’s a single family and a few farm hands living on an unusually large and high-labor productivity farm way out of town.
My work did the opposite and forced everyone in at least 3 days a week. Shit sucks. You can’t reason with (most) old white dudes.
Establishing maximums on parking lot sizes to be drastically less than the building’s capacity would help
Maximums aren’t necessarily the problem, since developers are incentivized by market forces not to build more parking than necessary.
The problem is parking minimums, which are based on numbers pulled out of somebody’s ass 80 years ago and (to the extent they correlated with anything at all) tend to be closer to the maximum that could ever conceivably be needed (think “Black Friday at a shopping center”) more than anything else!
I mean we need lobbiests to switch those mins to maz
We are the lobbyists. For example, my city is currently doing this, so it’s up to people like me to show up at the meetings and demand changes like that. You can do the same in your city or county by talking to your local political rep, even when they aren’t doing a wholesale rewrite like they are here.
Extra frustrating because even though Musk is associated wholesale with Tesla, he is not actually a founder.
Yet another example of the rich running shit into the ground with poor decisions.
As much as I think musk is an asshole he did put his money where his mouth is in Tesla which notably almost went bankrupt twice. The reality is that Elon distaste matters orders of magnitude less to buyers than value. I mean people hate Walmart and yet they make a ton of money. Other manufacturers cannot make profitable cars at the price point Tesla is offering. Tesla is going to end up the largest car manufacturer in the world. On Twitter yeah he is running it into the ground arguably on purpose but on Tesla and space x he is doing pretty good. I don’t understand what people taking this angle think the founder would have done better. The founder would have just gone bankrupt with Tesla or sold to someone else.
I would also add that people don’t deal with Elon when buying a Tesla, but they do have to deal with shitty dealers when buying another brand.
Most people are just going to buy the car that is the best value with the least effort.
people don’t deal with Elon when buying a Tesla, but they do have to deal with shitty dealers when buying another brand.
I’m not gonna defend the state of the dealership system, but from what I hear, getting Teslas fixed is awful in unique ways.
Tesla is going to end up the largest car manufacturer in the world.
They’re the largest by stock price, but in EVs/year they were surpassed by a chinese company a couple years ago, and both traditional and new companies are closing the gap Tesla got from all the early capital that was dumped into them. They never came close if you include non-electric cars.
Other manufacturers cannot make profitable cars at the price point Tesla is offering.
There’s tons of electric cars at the price point Tesla offers, with a fraction of the issues. One thing I did notice is other companies limit what they’re willing to import into the US to avoid competing with more expensive models (eg, no company imports cheap electric convertibles or station wagon because they’d compete with higher-end electric cars and SUVs/pickups respectively), but I’m not aware of any market segment that doesn’t have a competitive non-tesla equivalent.
Awhile ago, someone counted the number of local news stories of people getting immolated by their Teslas. It was more per car sold than the Ford Pinto.
Between:
spoiler
Locking the person in when power fails
Wompy Wheels
Steering wheel come off while you are driving
Tesla’s tendency to drive into the back of stopped emergency vehicles or stop on highways due to changing light conditions
The trunk
$500 door handles with 10 dollars worth of electronics that fail due to moisture and ice (this one was improved. They’re still $500 though)
The car lying about its range
Shoddy build quality
A dozen other issues I hear from Tesla owners
The only way I can understand Tesla not being as big of a joke as the Ford Pinto is some combination of outlets that would amplify these stories to become national news also tend to own stock in the largest car company, and Tesla having a team that’s 10x better than Ford’s at shutting down negative publicity.
I mean people hate Walmart and yet they make a ton of money.
The difference to Walmart is that there are alternatives, especially these days, to Tesla. Walmart on the other hand is known to push out smaller retailers in the town they settle into. The option for people can be really slim regardless if you like them or not.
Not to mention you have to consider demographics. Walmart is a value brand. When it edges out the local businesses, they get de-facto monopoly. There’s no where else to go if you can’t shop the higher retailers. Tesla had first-mover advantage with the flashy claims and making an EV not look like a Dustbuster. They ran out the goodwill and runway and they will get eaten alive by the seasoned manufacturers. They will have their segment of the market but you’ll more likely see the same brands convert people from petrol to EV or H2 if white hydrogen is actually a thing.
From what i know tesla was first really profitable from cars (not investors) in 2020 and elon gave himself a bonus with like 50x value from all the profits (my source is the youtuber thunderf00t).
And if i heard it correctly tesla cars are overpriced compared to the competitors and none is on place one when it comes to the stats.But to simply buy a tesla is as easy as simply buying the most advertised bs like nestle products.
And to the spaceX thing: they get their money mostly from having launch platforms and overpricing it there, the malket there only could be dominated because of investor money. (no source)
The satelite internet drains more money (with US GOV tax funds, no source) than it generates value outside of specific use cases. (partially thunderf00t)Another thing (i dont know if it is true) that tesla and spacex are doing better since elon is occupied with twitter
I remember when Teslas used to be cool.
Now I see them all the time, and they might as well swap the badge for one that says “removed”, it would be less embarrassing.
Buy a Tesla because you’re trying to help the environment and it was regarded as the best EV at the time
Tesla starts making their products shittier
Tesla lied about range
Tesla CEO loses his mind, buys a social media company, drives it into the ground
Someone on the internet says you’re a removed because you own a Tesla
I relate to this comment and I hate it.
Same, and also, when I was a teenager, I begrudgingly admit that I thought Elon Musk was cool.
Now if I am to get conspiratorial, Rupert Murdoch is trying to groom Musk into being the replacement for the Koch Brothers. Boomers love the Koch Brothers to the point of living vicariously through them, and Musk will be the same for millennials and zoomers to have their “le funny billionaire epic troll.”
Man people in here like you legitimately sound crazy. Buying one of the best EVs makes someone a removed? I hate Elon musk just as much as anyone but he didn’t create Tesla, engineer any of them, or build any of them… Y’all are too negative.
Poor manufacture quality and you have to subscribe to use car features it already has. Good thing you can hack them.
Data point of one, but I bought the cheapest Model 3 model back in 2020, added FSD (was $6k at the time I think) and have had no issue with mine. FSD is not ‘full self driving’, but I’ve been using it continuously since the update a few months ago.
I despise car culture, and it is the least car like car that I could buy. It does most of the driving, it is safer than most, it has no ongoing emissions, and per mile is cheaper than a gas car.
I don’t think Teslas are one of the best, certainly not anymore.
Efficiency, battery price for the cost, power, and charge time/long distance speed are measurably objectively in the top tier (although not uniquely so or not the singular best).
Not worth it for the shoddy construction, abusive customer-exploitative remote control that means you never own it, false advertising, and cultural association (also not uniquely so).
I remember a time when the Prius was head turning. It was the first “real” car to be a hybrid. That was interesting.
I would say that the Prius was never cool though.
All those “Nice Prius” bumper stickers were pretty funny though.
The mpg of those things is no joke
I got upgraded to one when I rented a car a few years ago, it was actually really nice. Although I’m someone who is used to driving clunkers (the local AAA tow truck drivers all knew my family, lol) and the engine shutting off at the light always freaked me out.
I saw a nice looking sedan roll past me one evening and when I saw it was a new Prius I knew I was officially getting old.
But ultimately, according to the survey, most Tesla owners plan to buy a Tesla again.
Lol
I’ve seen a lot of that, including tweets from bazingas that show wacky shit like car doors falling off but then say “STILL LOVE THE CAR THOUGH!”
@GarfieldYaoi @const_void
When buying a car, you have a wide choice of shitty corporations to purchase from.
No one cares about the rich assholes who own other car companies, so why Tesla? For example Toyota were some of the biggest campaign donors to Trump.
Also what does this have to do with Fuck Cars? This is about the minutiae of car culture… We should be talking about trains and bicycles here.
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No one cares about the rich assholes who own other car companies, so why Tesla? For example Toyota were some of the biggest campaign donors to Trump.
Because the others know to keep their mouths shut and not draw attention to themselves. Also F Toyota for being donors.
Also what does this have to do with Fuck Cars? This is about the minutiae of car culture… We should be talking about trains and bicycles here.
This I totally agree with though. I would perhaps also include cars in the capacity of how they hurt our cities for instance, but in this case it’s not like the article said that the Tesla owners bought bikes instead.
Iirc many Tesla owners were/are left leaning and I’m guessing many of them bought a Tesla in a combination of tech enthusiasm and wanting avoiding fossil fuel. The same group of people are probably more positive to, for instance, 15 min cities. So it’s likely that some members here own a Tesla.
@NotYourSocialWorker @stilgar Here is a list of the CEOs of Fortune 1000 companies who are not assholes:
How many of them bought a social media company because they were tired of racist bullies getting banned?
@legion02 Well, theres 🍊🤡 but yes Its a distinction that grabs immediate attention. No one is forced to use X. Im more directly concerned with those that dump forever chemicals in the nations public water supplies, destroy the climate, and directly fund the overthrow of democracy. But, you know, #priorities
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/11/1080073061/california-sues-tesla-racism-fremont
Because all car companies bad, no one should be allowed to call out especially bad things in car companies.
Wait. That Trump thing. You got a source? I’d love to learn more about it.
OK my claim was a bit overblown, but they’re not exactly strangers to the far right https://www.huffpost.com/entry/toyota-backlash-gop-donations_n_60dacd0ce4b08ef5e2be61c7
Thanks
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Makes sense the people buying teslas are obsessed with what others think of them
Eyy
I bought it before the twitter stuff
but you bought it well after everyone knew they were shit quality explosive deathtraps and that he was a paedophile
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It’s a thin shield of irony because pretty much every Tesla owner I know was already a complete douchebag before the Twitter thing.
I would prefer they drive a Tesla than a petrol car. But if they swap to another electric car, I’ll take it. I hope they advocate for better public transport links locally though.
What would be the purpose of swapping ?
It wouldn’t automagically reuse the resources used to build the Tesla car into another one.
This is a stretch but with bad press the resale value of existing teslas may drop to within reach of more consumers who would otherwise drive an ICE.
Would generally be better if they just kept driving their old car.
I don’t hurl insults at Tesla owners. If they’re dumb enough to stick to owning a car more likely to explode than a Pinto while not even having the panels line up correctly on a $40k “luxury” car, then there’s no pox I could wish on them worse than what they’re already signed up for.
This is the equivalent of voting Republican, then complaining how everything is getting worse.
Eh, if you vote Republican, complain about things getting worse, then vote Democrat, that’s changing your mind. If I saw someone with that sticker, I’d assume they regret the decision and won’t be getting another one. Being able to change your opinion with new information really shouldn’t be discouraged.
That’s a good point.
Clarification: This is like voting for the incumbent Republican on your ballot, complaining how things are getting worse… then voting for the ‘R’ again.
Tesla is not a company of one person.
Edit: I get wanting to protect yourself from folks who want to take their Elon rage out on random tesla, but isn’t it easier to just talk to folks about this?
Thank you for sharing the article, op.
I mean if you bought a normal car and then the owner of the car company turns out to be an asshole, who cares?
But if you buy a Tesla the owner of the car company can force an update on you tomorrow because he’s a removed. So there is still direct influence. I don’t want to know how badly the terms and conditions for Tesla software is worded, if they can randomly up subscription cost, limit your range (to protect the battery of course), shut off features and put them behind a subscription, …
Or hell, if a Tesla is located in Ukraine it might just not start at all, they also shut down Starlink.
Yeah too bad that idiot at the top hasn’t been thrown out like in any normal company and the company is using resources to accommodate his whims.
Why do you think he as been able to retain his position with the company?
Because the value of the company is mostly determined by his fans irrational boner for him
My family buys Tesla cars because they are awesome despite hating Elon musk… Also have friends who just love Tesla that much and also hate him.
they’re fine, QA is extremely spotty for cars tho.
Frunk, not owned by oil friendly car company, best EV recharging, safest cars, amazing acceleration and smooth ride with low center of gravity. I don’t care about the crappy QA honestly. My Toyota straight up came with a fuel tank that’s significantly smaller than advertised due to a manufacturing defect (2020). The teslas I’ve driven seem to just have mild finish issues that frankly don’t bother me.
By being filthy rich and owning a lot of the company?
Its always a debate which CEO has the word to stop a company. Let’s say do you think if he really wanted to Satya Nadella could just stop Microsoft? I do believe he could not. On the other hand I do believe Elon could stop Tesla even though he is only ~21% into the company.
When you find out the owner of the brand you’re literally flying the flag of is a fascist, and you don’t make a change, it’s at that point you become the asshole flying the fascists flag. Elon Musk IS Tesla. nice try though dickhead.
Wow I really appreciate your comment. No idea why you feel the need to call me a name though. Anyways, thanks stranger. Your opinion is enlightening.
what is about americans and bumper stickers
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Lmao imagine being this big a loser you feel like apologizing to everyone because you bought a shit car
It’s called self-deprecating humor.
Good contribution!
