This was suggested to me by another user in the current big thread about this. I haven’t finished watching it yet. It’s from Poddy Mouth, a black creator. Apparently the video has perspectives from black people with Tourette’s included. Might be valuable in this moment.
This is a (very short, < 5 minutes) video from a black elected official with Tourette’s. He takes the position that an acknowledgement or apology is necessary. I think this was before the subsequent statement mentioned in the video linked in the post title was made (the following day), so I don’t know if that statement would meet the standard this person had in mind for addressing the harm caused.
As I said in my other comments, I don’t have the energy right now to really engage with this discussion further, and I don’t want to accidentally cause harm by doing so. I just thought this video also belonged in this thread. Also as I said, if you have other such videos please do post them in this thread or in their own post.
Edit: this video, similar to the one linked in the post title, I got from a comment by another user in the previous thread.
I have been asked by another user to include the following info in the post body, which might be relevant to the discussion.
i think you should link this article directly from the guy with tourettes in the post: https://archive.is/GS647
this bit in particular would be helpful i think
Since the fallout, Davidson’s team shares that he’s reached out to the studio handling “Sinners” in order to directly apologize to Jordan, Lindo and production designer Hannah Beachler.
People commenting in this post please follow rule 8: when engaging with your fellow users please take the most charitable interpretation and assume good faith. Comments breaking this rule will be removed and the post locked like the last two on this topic in the event multiple people break the rule repeatedly.
I have trouble speaking on this because being white and neurodivergent lends me an inherent bias on this that I can only really be conscious of and actively disclaim when discussing it.
There are three issues that alarm me in this debate from that perspective, and after that I want to self-crit regarding where I may be myopic.
First, the conflation of tics and Freudian slips. I don’t have Tourette’s myself, but I am informed enough about it to try to capture the problems I have with people taking issue of him ‘meaning it’ or ‘having it in his vocabulary.’ Tics are essentially involuntarily-actualized intrusive thoughts. Have you ever been behind the wheel of a car on a bridge and your brain flashbangs you with “I could swerve off it right now,” or held a knife and immediately thought of the harm you could inflict with it? I would describe it as your brain anchoring you against the thing you least want to do so you’re cognizant of it as something to be vigilant about. One of the symptoms that can present with Tourette’s is Coprolalia which, to relay my simplistic understanding of it, vocalizes that thing that you least want to do in a social situation. The reason people tic slurs is because people are educated about slurs and then internalize that they shouldn’t say them to people, which backfires if you suffer from Coprolalia. It does not inherently mean you “say it behind closed doors” or “have internal animus,” that is a Freudian slip, which is incomparable in all-but-presentation.
Second, the idea that Davidson has not apologized. Per Variety, he either has or is attempting to apologize to the individuals in question.
Since the fallout, Davidson’s team shares that he’s reached out to the studio handling “Sinners” in order to directly apologize to Jordan, Lindo and production designer Hannah Beachler.
I am conflicted on the meta-discourse surrounding apologies. I understand the perspective offered by some that says he should not have to—or cannot in good faith—apologize for something he cannot control or prevent from happening in the future, and I also understand the perspective that ticking a slur is nonetheless dehumanizing for the subjects of it, and when it happens in a public setting it creates a fetid dynamic in the room that exponentiates the harm and humiliation suffered beyond personal offense. If someone called me the R-slur and then everyone in a room turned to look at me, I’d feel deeply humiliated and I’d probably have a fucking panic attack.
I think that ultimately it’s between Davidson and the affected parties to decide if a personal apology is constructive/reparatory here, but Davidson should not have to apologize to the public. The malfeasance there is on the BBC, which selectively scrubbed speeches that brought up Palestine to not air those bits, but specifically and actively chose despite prior pushback from film execs to broadcast the Disability-Induced Public Humiliation Incident to the world, which is disgusting malpractice on their part and reveals their ability-based contempt for Davidson and racial contempt for the Sinners team.
Third, the alarming discussions about “solutions” to Davidson’s Tourette’s. I have seen at this point dozens of accounts on social media attempt to propose “solutions” or “responses” to this situation that range from disinviting Davidson (who was there because a film about him was nominated for and won BAFTAs) because of his Coprolalia to physical violence and abuse, including assault and muzzling. I am unhappy that the latter category has examples that I don’t want to go back into X: The Everything App to dig up and make myself feel more harrowed by. The ability-based animus towards Davidson is already foul in its character, but there is also a class concern here, because Davidson does janitorial work for a living. Davidson is a proletarian that was elevated into the public sphere due to a high-profile documentary on his Tourette’s at 16. As such, I do not expect him to have the capital to hire a security team to stave off anyone who would actually follow up on that threat, which actualizes the physical safety concerns I have with that rhetoric being brought to the table. Speaking of, Davidson has also been assaulted prior after ticking an insult:
I have been physically beaten to within an inch of my life with an iron bar after ticking a comment to a young woman whose boyfriend and accomplice ambushed me one evening.
Per Variety, again. I have to spotlight this because I see the frustrations with the humiliation of the incident boiling over into people suggesting what would amount to ability segregation at best and hate crimes at worst as ‘appropriate responses.’ It disgusts me and makes me deeply uncomfortable personally, because I have severe ADHD and as soon as we start assaulting or “physically correcting” things that people cannot control, I see myself on the end of that baton.
To self-critique here, I cannot offer much else besides the things I articulate here, rooted in the spheres and perspectives I have more personal familiarity with, of which I have enough confidence in my ability to fairly represent. Therefore, I cannot communicate the other side of the issue as well and I’m choosing not to because I don’t want to speak for or over my black comrades on here. I’m sorry if I didn’t offer a counter-perspective in places where I could have, but I just do not feel equipped enough to do so with the nuance and grace it deserves, as I’m trying to do here now presenting the issues from the perspective of being neurodivergent. I don’t want to go on the Elon Musk Torture App any more today to immerse myself further in the arguments being made by both flanks there.
It makes me sad to see a public tension between two historically-oppressed communities be stoked by the fuckers at the BBC and the rest of the capitalist media. This discourse is a cesspit and I think at this point there’s nothing productive to be gained from furthering it, as I believe it’s already in a territory that has stepped well-beyond the incident itself.
Thanks for the excellent post! I am lucky to not have coprolalia, but I do have Tourette’s among other things, so I’d like to say that your analysis is very well-researched and is full of great points. If you or anyone is interested, I’d like to add a tiny bit more to the mechanism of Coprolalia and TS.
Firstly, individuals with coprolalia are categorized as having a significantly higher severity of Tourette’s symptoms than those without it. This includes the strength of their tics, as well as a higher association with comorbidities such as OCD, ADHD, self-harm, and more. However, it is not known to what degree these neuropsychiatric disorders are linked.
Social situations, especially those with a high degree of social observation (an awards ceremony for example) are linked with a higher degree and severity of tics.
Before a tic event, the most individuals experience a “premonitory urge” before release, which can be described as the feeling of needing to sneeze or scratch an itch. In my experience, this feeling is quite strong. However, this is not always the case. Notably, this is shown to be less prevalent before the release of a vocal tic. Also, this premonitory urge is not necessarily tied to coprolalia. In fact, it’s considered likely that this is a natural rise of involuntary emotional outburst as well (for example, a person without TS who submerges their foot in freezing water may experience a “buildup” before giving a motor or vocal response).
Based on the language structures of the brain, the area where words, including swear words, are stored is predominantly the left hemisphere. However, an automatic response involving a taboo word activates primarily the right hemisphere of the brain, which indicates a neurophysiologic difference between words that are used in an automatic release (such as coprolalia) and those that share overlap with the functions used for structured language.
To put it more simply, the brain stores taboo words differently than it does other language, in a different area of the brain, which is why taboo words are associated with phenomena such as pain reduction and “normal” language isn’t. A coprolalic event triggers this function, essentially skipping over the sections of the brain used for linguistic structure and meaning. This is influenced by external sensory data picked up by the brain, but is not a voluntary response to that sensory data. This is why coprolalia appears “targeted”, because it is based on the involuntary trigger of “what not to say”. Ironically, if a person did not consider a word to be as taboo in a situation (such as a racist who casually uses slurs often), this involuntary trigger would not be as prevalent, in the same way that someone who swears all the time is shown to reduce pain by swearing far less than a person who never swears casually.
It should be noted that there remains a lack of data or methodology to fully analyze coprolalia, due in a large part to the social stigma associated with the condition.
Again, I myself do not have coprolalia (it’s estimated that 10% or fewer individuals with Tourette’s do), so I am not a primary authority and cannot share a perspective on it as well as someone who does, nor would I ever claim to know more than them. This is all based on academic research mixed with some small elements of my own experience. This is also intended purely as a quick analysis on coprolalia and TS, and is in no way intended to commentate or discuss my thoughts or research about the Davidson BAFTA situation. I merely just wanted to write and share something interesting.
Sources used:
Swearing and coprophenomena – A multidimensional approach (Note: this was my main source)
Neuroanatomy of coprolalia in Tourette syndrome using functional magnetic resonance imaging
Thank you so much for this post, I appreciate the research so much! The last few days have had me research TS for obvious reasons since I always felt like I did not know enough about it to begin with. I am amazed at some of the details you mentioned about the buildup to the tic, but it also made me curious. If you feel comfortable sharing this, I would like to know how you experience your tics, meaning, do you feel like you are an onlooker in your own body, or maybe something is just making your tic happen?
I wanna thank you again for sharing both your post and the links. It means so much to be able to learn from someone who’s affected, and it really beats just reading research.
I’m glad you enjoyed!
As for the function of my tics and the premonitory urge, I can’t speak for all cases of Tourette’s because the feelings seem to differ to varying degrees between people. But my own motor tics are thankfully very easy to describe. They mostly involve either extending or compressing my joints, notably my elbows, knees, neck, and fingers, but occasionally my body wants to flex my bicep or calf muscles. Not painfully or anything, just a basic urge to crack my joints. Usually the tics come in a quick succession, so I’ll just do them all.
I was surprised to read that the research description of the premonitory urge matches my own almost exactly. It really is the same as the urge to sneeze or scratch an itch or anything like that. A very obvious, physical tingling sensation will build up in the joint or muscle every minute or so, and go away when I crack or flex it. I imagine it’s essentially the same process as anyone who gets an urge to crack their joint. It just happens anywhere from every 10 seconds to every couple of minutes for me. There’s also some stuff involving my facial muscles, but I can’t get a good read on what they’re like, since they’re rare (and I can’t see my own face lol). The urge can build to be quite strong (never painful), especially if I consciously resist it for longer than a minute or so, meaning I learned when I was really young that there’s no point in fighting it at all.
My vocal tics are much harder to describe. Unlike the motor tics, it’s hard to tell what the build-up feels like. It’s not like my tongue or brain tingles the same way that my joints do. I’ll just make a small noise with my lips like a pop or whatever every so often. Lots of people do this, so it’s really hard to tell the extent of what is a tic, what is my ADHD, and what is something else. Similarly, I tend to repeat words or phrases that I hear, but it’s hard to tell if it’s just normal conversation stuff, or if it’s echolalia. Finally, I don’t really think any vocal tics take the form of words (unless I’m repeating something I hear).
To give a sense of how it can be hard to identify vocal tics, it’s the same process as counting how many “filler words” you use in a sentence, or how often you repeat a question back to someone.
Finally, just as a clarification, none of my tics are what I would describe as painful or otherwise physically debilitating. There’s no point where I personally don’t feel in control of my body. To me, I’d say it’s like if I had a small itch every minute: irritating at times, but mostly in the background. I am very lucky in this regard, and if my tics get noticed at all, the most social pressure I will typically receive (especially growing up) was just telling me to sit still or stop fidgeting. I know that many people even without Tourette’s can relate to that experience. Honestly, I have always considered my Tourette’s to be rather minor in comparison to my ADHD, which as far as I can tell is pretty severe and affects much more of my life. Both were diagnosed at the same time when I was very young, and I wasn’t surprised at all to read in the research that they’re very common together.
Uh… sorry lol, I didn’t mean to type this long of a reply. I’ve honestly just never really described it (at least not since I was like, 9) so I got carried away haha. My experience isn’t particularly notable, but I hope it answered some of your questions! I’d be happy to answer anything else if there’s more that I can add!
GOOD post
GOOD post
The BBC ragebaited everyone by not censoring this and it worked. All publicity is good publicity, and everyone is talking about BAFTA at the cost of humiliating both disabled people and POC’s alike. And now the conversation has pitted the two demographics against each other.
Just remember who the real enemy is folks.
They got away with censoring ‘free Palestine’ while stoking a non-class division, somebody at the BBC is getting a knighthood for this
I thought this was interesting. I think the BBC made this happen on purpose: https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2026/02/25/bbc-davidson/
This is a (very short, < 5 minutes) video from a black elected official with Tourette’s. He takes the position that an acknowledgement or apology is necessary. I think this was before the subsequent statement mentioned in the video linked in the post title was made (the following day), so I don’t know if that statement would meet the standard this person had in mind for addressing the harm caused.
As I said in my other comments, I don’t have the energy right now to really engage with this discussion further, and I don’t want to accidentally cause harm by doing so. I just thought this video also belonged in this thread. Also as I said, if you have other such videos please do post them in this thread or in their own post.
Edit: this video, similar to the one linked in the post title, I got from a comment by another user in the previous thread.
This is a (very short, < 5 minutes) video from a black elected official with Tourette’s. He takes the position that an acknowledgement or apology is necessary. I think this was before the subsequent statement mentioned in the video linked in the post title was made (the following day), so I don’t know if that statement would meet the standard this person had in mind for addressing the harm caused.
Thanks for this, pretty much sums up how I feel about this situation, and I’m glad it’s coming from a black man with Tourette’s.
i think you should link this article directly from the guy with tourettes in the post: https://archive.is/GS647
this bit in particular would be helpful i think
Since the fallout, Davidson’s team shares that he’s reached out to the studio handling “Sinners” in order to directly apologize to Jordan, Lindo and production designer Hannah Beachler.
Thank you, I will do so.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Mods stop beating around the bush and make a mega sticky. Cause I can’t be in community with people who think saying Fuck is the same as saying Ni***R.
i just want to know why everyone is so hyperfocused on one guy instead of going after the bbc for airing this uncensored
We’re mad as hell at BBC too, we’re mad at the awards for not notifying the presenters well enough, we’re mad at a 2 hour delay and keeping it in anyway but taking out Palestine and Congo and Sudan, of course we’re mad.
But Ni***R wasn’t said in some vaccum by a machine to a void. It was during a moment 2 Black people were on stage, a quick “oopsy it’s part of the Tourettes” after means a lot more than “because I can’t control it, you shouldn’t be mad”.
all i can say the vibe i have gotten online is much more like what is shown in the video in that people are overwhelmingly more mad about the guy with tourrette’s than the bbc
Are they mad at him for saying it or mad there wasn’t an apology? Cause I’ve seen the latter way more than the former and I even saw people in the former category apologize for being misinformed but still want an apology.
People are mad that Black people had to hear Ni**** during an award ceremony then get it broadcasted to the world. Michael B Jordan’s mom cried from it because that word has weight behind it.
There’s no context where Black people ever want to hear Ni**** and on a stage in front of so many, likely, white folk during a ceremony is definitely the last place. Then have y’all come out from who knows where ready to defend this- a lack of apology- is ultimatley insulting.
Are they mad at him for saying it or mad there wasn’t an apology?
he actually did (or is trying to) get in touch to apologize directly to the individuals in question
Since the fallout, Davidson’s team shares that he’s reached out to the studio handling “Sinners” in order to directly apologize to Jordan, Lindo and production designer Hannah Beachler.
just linked the same article lol
Since the fallout, Davidson’s team shares that he’s reached out to the studio handling “Sinners” in order to directly apologize to Jordan, Lindo and production designer Hannah Beachler.
i think you should read the whole article i think it would help you understand why people are coming out of “who knows where” to defend this. even i just learned they dont like calling it a disability so i will try and avoid doing that now.
I actually know he recently reached out for an apology, I saw the report yesterday, which settles this for me. And I emphasize I never said anything about the guy nor his character.
But y’all made sure to bend over backwards to make sure we (Black people) knew he didn’t have to apologize. Told us it’s aggregious and abelist to expect one too since it’s not his fault, minimized the impact of a slur.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Admittedly it’s not the same thing as Tourette’s and definitely not nearly as severe as dropping the n-word in a public event celebrating an achievement by black people, but I go through something in a similar vein as an autistic person where I sometimes upset people by accident because I miss certain cues or am unaware of certain unspoken social rules. I feel bad and apologize when that happens because even if I didn’t intend to hurt them, I still hurt them. I don’t think that’s self-hatred or “apologizing for my existence” as I’ve seen some people frame it. Davidson is apparently trying to get in touch with them to apologize, which seems entirely reasonable to me.
People talk about Davidson’s right to exist in public as a person with Tourette’s and he absolutely does have that right, which I don’t think anyone here is disputing. What some people are overlooking is that being subjected to horrible racial slurs has a negative effect on black people’s ability to exist in public. Accommodation has to be mutual.
Well said! That’s all it takes.
I’m autistic myself, I accidentally told a doordash driver who gave me the wrong order “I don’t want you making future mistakes” when I meant “I don’t want you to get to the next house and accidentally give them the wrong order(because I had theirs).” I cleared up I wasn’t mad about it and glad we were able to do the swap and wished him well. Felt like an ass over it after but that’s just part of being autistic.
Right wing debate bro bullshit works really well in pulling anyone into the mud, what is there to be said
Haven’t watched the vid but just in general, apologizing for something is just polite even if you had no control over it, heck in some cases even if it’s the other person’s fault. If I hit someone with my car because they suddenly try to cross the road without looking, I’m still gonna apologize for the harm I caused even if I’m not to blame for the accident.
If someone with Tourettes said something to me that genuinely hurt me, I wouldn’t demand or expect an apology, but I’d appreciate one nonetheless.
Relevant quote from the video:
I think everybody’s initial reaction is fine. What’s not right, once motherfuckers educate you, for you to still be like, “Yeah, but he should say sorry.” Sorry for existing. … He had no choice in this! You’re asking him to say sorry for his fucking existence!
He doesn’t need to apologize any more than a person with a wheelchair needs to apologize for taking up extra space. It’s a disability, nothing happened, move on. How many times do you want to make this guy apologize for existing with a disability every day? Just the once? Every time he says something inappropriate?
nothing happened, move on
wat
a person with a wheelchair needs to apologize
if you’ve ever spent much time around people who have powerchairs you might know that they not infrequently run into other people and things. especially with the decreased dexterity associated with many conditions that warrant a powerchair, control of said chairs can be suboptimal. (usually paraplegics have manual chairs; only people with affect in 3 or 4 limbs get the power. and some are controlling with eyes or mouth which isn’t first choice for good reasons.) do those people apologize when they bash into you, run over your toe, or put a dent in the wall? OF COURSE. unless they are total assholes. (actually a friend of mine liked to make a bit of a game out of gently bumping strangers in public to see if they would apologize to him even though he was obviously at fault, that was to poke fun at people who patronized him for being in a chair and make a point about his own agency… and he was being a bit of an asshole tbf. But he would apologize for any actual mistake and especially if any harm came would feel bad like any normal person.)
eta: at the risk of overstating a point, i would like to really underline a difference between my comment and the one above it:
- On the 1 hand: the objectifying use of “person with a wheelchair” whose supposed harm is “taking up extra space” ---- sitting still doing nothing
- “taking up extra space” is being presented as equivalent to invoking centuries of the most brutal violence ; a totally false equivalency
- On the 2nd hand: describing experience with actual human beings who are in motion, relationship and tension with those around them. Who are invested in the well being of others while (extremely) aware of their own difficulties as it impacts others and themselves.
I find the 1st to be dehumanizing of all involved and mentioned.
- On the 1 hand: the objectifying use of “person with a wheelchair” whose supposed harm is “taking up extra space” ---- sitting still doing nothing
How many times do you want to make this guy apologize for existing with a disability every day?
I wouldn’t demand or expect an apology
Not at all? Maybe this is because I’m autistic and from Germany where people are generally less polite than in the US, but when I say “I’d appreciate it” I genuinely don’t mean anything past that. It’s not mandatory or expected.
Let’s say someone with tourettes has a tic that makes them slap me. I know they have no control over this and they don’t owe me an apology. But if they did apologize, I’d think “Oh, how nice of them to apologize even though they didn’t have to.” Does that make sense? I wouldn’t think less of them if they didn’t but it’d be a nice gesture if they did. It’s like if a friend stays at the end of a house party to help clean up. I don’t think less of the friends who left without helping, but the friend who does help? What a nice guy.
Come on don’t be obtuse, that’s wrong about the video too. An apology isn’t “sorry for existing”
In the car analogy, if you hit someone you aren’t saying sorry you exist you’re saying sorry I unintentionally harmed you.
People don’t gotta apologize for having tourettes or cursing or whatever. But a fucking slur to the person the slur is targeted to??? Absolutely. And saying something inappropriate is not the same as a saying a slur.
If he called a trans person the T slur would you fight so hard for him to never apologize for it?
I have been called a slur by people with an illness like five times this year.
I have been punched by a patient with a mental illness twice. (In total, not this year)
Although i will freely admit that my situation as a healthcare worker is atypical.No one is fighting you on this. People are telling you that a person is being assigned motivations that he did not have, and that while feeling humiliated, denigrated, threatened or offended are all valid responses to this, you should bear in mind that he did not mean to do what he did. He also does not have a racism disease, this didn’t reveal his secret inner thoughts and that assuming he is bigoted based on his Tourettes is misunderstanding how the disease works.
As a healthcare worker, do you think that patients do the same harmful behavior towards people they perceive as white vs black vs asian? Do you think doctors vs nurses vs orderlies/aides/techs vs admin vs management all catch quantity/quality of nastiness proportionate to their time in contact with patients? And then subdivide both of those into staff perceived as men vs women.
Or does the ostensibly uncontrolled shit seem to flow in the same way as all others in the expected patterns? yes some people will punch a white USian male doctor; but lots more will swing at the afrocarribean aide when she’s trying to set up the food tray, whether she will mention to anyone or not.
these things are not distributed equally
What do you do when you don’t mean something that happened?
You all are projecting so many things onto this guy, how many time do we have to say we get that it’s unintentional but we still don’t like being called slurs?
No one is saying you have to like it. I literally said
feeling humiliated, denigrated, threatened or offended are all valid responses to this
And in the last thread I specifically said
Those affected by that (Which doesn’t just include the people on stage, but an entire PoC audience) have every right to feel however they feel about it, be that hurt, humiliated, threatened, denigrated or whatever combination of that is applicable. Given the history of that term and the way it happened in the middle a moment celebrating a cultural achievement of black artists I would be fully understanding of having been affected by the outburst
You are shadowboxing.
but with him being a white disabled person there is still a power imbalance toward Black people, the impact of this situation matters because of his whiteness (his disability is a part of it but it cannot be seperated from his whiteness, that’s the core aspect here and the basis of how to approach this intersectionally).
even if he didn’t mean to, this impact can’t be diminished or waved away by putting the onus entirely on his disability. there are ways to take an anti-racist approach if one knows their disability can have impacts on other marginalized communities to minimize harm before or after an incident such as this.
The man was seated in the back and specifically asked for the BBC to make sure he did not disrupt proceedings and his tics not be broadcast. He took precautions, he did everything that could reasonably be expected of him
That feelings are hurt is not nothing, and I have repeatedly stated the validity of such. But rhetoric like this is frankly absurd
In the car analogy, if you hit someone you aren’t saying sorry you exist you’re saying sorry I unintentionally harmed you.
You’re the one in control with a car, you can make choices which don’t lead to harm. A person with tourettes has absolutely no choice about saying whatever it makes them say. To expect them to apologize for what their disability forces them to say is to expect them to apologize for their existence. You can exist without hitting people with your car, a person with tourettes can’t exist without saying whatever it happens to be.
If he called a trans person the T slur would you fight so hard for him to never apologize for it?
Yes, because he didn’t really call anyone anything. If we’re being real, his disability made a noise that people understandably misinterpreted as him calling someone a slur. But now you’re acting as if he made a choice for which he should apologize. I assure you that if choice was a factor it wouldn’t have happened.
A world in which people have to apologize for having a disability is a world in which people with disabilities just decide it’s not worth it and self-isolate. I don’t want to live in that world. That sucks, and you suck for trying to reinforce it.
You can imagine he didn’t call anyone anything but that’s untrue. Maybe it’s not technically directed at someone but 4 Black people got called N***R. This is a fact choice or not.
In his own movie he said sorry after saying fuck the queen. So now what?
And white people are only expected to apologize for harm caused by disability but Black people get arrested or likely murder, need names ? Kanye West is known is have a few disabilities, he shouldn’t apologize for them? ( not to add we as Black folk still hold him to his actions knowing of his conditions)
In his own movie he said sorry after saying fuck the queen. So now what?
from the linked video supposedly they had an announcement that he was in the crowd and not to take any offense to anything he said, maybe in the movie there was nothing like that which is why he apologized?
but Black people get arrested or likely murder
yes black people with disabilities are much more mistreated than white people with disabilities what is the point here?
Kanye West is known is have a few disabilities, he shouldn’t apologize for them?
i dont really think kanye should be held responsible for what’s been happening, kinda like i think the fault lies with the bbc in this situation i think way more scrutiny needs to be leveled on the people around him exploiting him and the media for publicizing his very clear mental health issues in order to make money. kanye’s worst fault is that he doesnt take meds that are supposed to help with bipolar but even then those texts he released from the guy who like, threatened to “send him back to zombieland” or something to that effect was fucking insane and probably should have seen jail time for it because that probably greatly contributes/contributed to his reluctance to take medicine.
A person with tourettes has absolutely no choice about saying whatever it makes them say.
How do you jump from this to assuming any sort of apology would be asking for forgiveness for their existence?
Removed by mod
both the n-word and the t-slur are deserving of an apology from a white cis man even with his intersection of disability. he is still white and cis and those slurs deeply harm and impact communities he is not a part of and wields power over.
No lmao its prolly the fact that white people hide behind their marginalized identities all the time and had they been the target of a slur they’d be upset but poc get ignored all the damn time both on this site and out of it. It’s the fact that, according to other poc I’ve been talking to on the poc thread, other situations where tourettes lead to anti-lgbt slurs being thrown nobody had any issue with queer people being upset about it and wanting an apology even if it wasn’t the person’s intent. Bringing up the fact that white people, even on this site, will take them more seriously than the normalized as fuck slurs about poc, especially the n slur who should be referred to as that instead of word, isn’t thinking one is more uniquely deserving it’s notifying a gap on white leftists who claim to be our allies. But this is the site that had the “burning the israeli flag is antisemetic cause it has the star of David” discourse where a mod who sent death threats to people and called them antisemites (many of them muslim arabs) only got demoted and no other consequences ever taken lmao dunno wtf I expected.
But please to the mods do ban me from here for ableism or queerphobia despite me also being a disabled and queer poc, I know pointing out how racism isn’t taken as seriously by white minorities as their own marginalized identities they expect us to take seriously is not a popular opinion here or anywhere. As a disabled person tbh the most ableist thing here is a bunch of rich fucks without masks all in a room together but ig those disabilities that don’t lead to you shouting slurs at random black people aren’t worth being upset over in the eyes of white people.
P.S: You don’t have to be racist to propagate racist shit btw that’s the basic ABCs of leftism that somehow crackers on this site skipped over. Intent doesn’t equal impact.
The person you are referring to here: “mod who sent death threats to people” is perm site-banned.
Are there specific comments or posts you are referring to with “other situations where tourettes lead to anti-lgbt slurs being thrown nobody had any issue with queer people being upset about it and wanting an apology” this part?
I saw them still posting days after the whole debacle, ended up blocking them but glad to know they were dealt with even if it took too long.
You’d have to go search through the em_poc threads as I can’t recall exactly who spoke about it and if it was recent but I will talk to who it was and find a link.
EDIT: Apparently it was outside hexbear on an lgbtqia site a few years back, I genuinely apologize if my comment made it seem like it happened on this site as I really don’t want to spread any misinformation on this already heated topic.
Thank you for looking into that I would 100% want to act on that occurring here. There were many mistakes from the admin/mod team during the discussion of the
emoji and I just wanted to make it clear that action was taken. In addition one of the other admins decided to leave/delete account rather than engage in the discussion about the harm done by them during the emoji discussion.could you edit the original comment then?
deleted by creator
what?
disengaging from the discussion out of respect for our empoc comrades.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
The doubling down a lot of people have been doing with regards to their dismissal of disability is knd of insidious imo. Not only should he apologise for his existence, but the people pointing out how Tourettes works are also somehow hurting people.
And this is how I feel about a slur being handwaved away. Because we aren’t even saying apologize for the disability but apologize for the slur. And ignoring our frustration to a slur being said is absolutley racist. Notice how we don’t give a fuck about the other outburst during the show? Why is that ?
The fact that you dont give a shit about other feelings being hurt than your own is not really a defense of your earnestness in your belief that he should be held accountable for his disease.
Which, let’s be clear, is what you are asking.
he shouldn’t apologize for his existence you are making a very uncharitable interpretation, he should apologize for a racist utterance as a white person and how that impacts and harms Black people whether intentional or not. this is basic intersectionality. being marginalized through disability doesn’t cancel out other privileges and power imbalances a person has.
(Accidentally replied to the wrong person)
I am disabled & white and I think the best thing to do in this situation is to sit down. Not everything needs to be commented on, or reacted to – from our perspective at least. We think that our perspective is extremely important, but actually we could use to be a lot more quiet in situations like this. And it disappoints me that I see people arguing about this, when really we should be listening to Black people. And not just one voice, but many voices that have talked about this recently (especially the most marginalized and relevant to the situation.)
No. If someone says that tourettes is equivalent to bigotry, and that trying to inform them of the nature of the disease is too, then that is ignorance at best. And their skin color, the systemic bigotry they have faced, the racist nature of society and my inability to truly understand the impact of this does not make that not ignorant.
Are you white? Do you have black skin?
You’re creating strawmen arguments that pretty much align with probably the vast majority of right wing racists who are engaging in this discourse. Nobody should have to apologize for their disease. But if you hurt someone, regardless of the conditions you have, you should apologize. It’s pretty simple. But this discourse has really gone too far, it was a mistake and of course, the culture warriors want it to continue.
Pitting black people against neurodivergent folks or really any minority group is right wing nirvana. ‘If someone with a gun to their head had to say the nword, would you forgive them if they did’ sort of fever dream scenario conjured up by some 4channer
We are literally seeing the exact thing i am pointing out on hexbear, it is not a right wing canard, I am not aligning myself with the right wing.
I am not a minority subject to racist discrimination. In fact my comment would make little sense if I were. But I am disabled and work with disabled people. And my perspective in a discourse which now sees people tripling or quadrupling down on refusing to learn how disability works is not invalid.
We are literally seeing the exact thing i am pointing out on hexbear
Is anyone on Hexbear saying ‘tourettes is equivalent to bigotry’? Because if not this is a wild reframing of the argument.
Im nit really up for being gaslit on this one chief
What are you talking about? How are you feeling gaslit right now?
no everyone must vaguepost, context and true understanding is forbidden here
and honestly, I have seen a lot of compassion being extended towards the guy, and are understanding of his condition. “I feel bad for everyone involved” is something I hear a lot. The worst offenders being people who are more privileged (not on this site, but famous ppl)
Unfortunately I will not be responding to or reading any responses to this, but please take what I said into consideration instead of responding defensively.
I’m glad somebody else dug into this a bit further, too. One of the coolest things about modern day intersectionality is that we can go trawling online to find people that actually exist at the intersection we’re talking about. And we should listen to them before we start popping off in the comments.
again, the only thing worth mention is how overrated/libbed-up Sinners is.
An opinion to have in the face of some important discussion on intersectionality.
Also an incorrect one but that’s beside the point
Important Discussion
okay. i’ll cede to you that this is no less important than every other piece of internet Discourse of the last ~15 years
Also an incorrect one but that’s beside the point
dead wrong. as someone with Good Taste i wish people would respect my point of view on this issue.
okay. i’ll cede to you that this is no less important than every other piece of internet Discourse of the last ~15 years
About as important as discussion on Hexbear is gonna get, pretty much
dead wrong. as someone with Good Taste i wish people would respect my point of view on this issue.
You’ll actually find that I am The Tastemaker, and I’ve released a patch to Good Taste recently (
ver. 1.42069-ppb). Update your taste client to be correct again. You can then get started on your overdue “jammin to I Lied To You/Pale Pale Moon/Rocky Road to Dublin” backlog.Hope this helps!
I’m sorry but I’m gonna consider the depression-era piece with black soul musicians and mobsters fighting an Irish vampire a fun romp and you will not stop me. It’s like Green Room, if it wasn’t made for me.
It’s a pretty good video, but of course it’s only a few perspectives and I don’t want to fall into the trap of thinking they’re universal. Anyone else with more please post.
I was serious here, please anyone if you know some good videos/posts/etc. please post more perspectives from black people with Tourette’s on this topic. I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere more than we’ve already gotten with just the perspectives of black people who don’t have that sort of disability or white (or otherwise not black) people who do.
Edit: not necessarily in reply to me, but in this thread or in a new thread. I’m out of energy to engage with this for now, I think, which is why I haven’t said anything in this thread. Plus, I didn’t want to continue engaging in the same manner as the prior thread on this topic (which I don’t think was achieving much productive) and risk hurting someone else or myself in the process.
I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
