+/- 20% is good enough for e6 and covers the overwhelming majority of men’s foot lengths.
For making a measurement without a tool +/-20% should be fine.
It’s all fun and games, but I take issue with calling metric “civilized units”. Human civilization developed all kinds of units appropriate to the work being done and calling the ones defined almost in defiance of everyday use the civilized ones is absurd.
Being able to easily convert between various units makes the metric system the only one worth considering civilized.
Every time I see a wrench labeled with some insane fraction like 18/32 my eye starts twitching. I honestly cannot tell which size is bigger without dividing and converting to decimal.
Human civilization developed all kinds of dumb shit we’ve since discarded. Please let’s discard the idiotic units in my lifetime.
I think you mean a 9/16. It’s be pretty crazy to see one labeled 18/32.
When you wanna make fun of sae use an odd number on top so no one can make fun of you for not reducing your fractions like a fourth grader. Or so you whip out 9/12 and get elementary school math mogged anyway.
How is it easier to convert between units under metric? I don’t have any use for a kilogram length of lumber or a meter of gasoline. What unit conversions are you doing?
Nah, my ruler has cm on one side and inches on the other. The side with inches actually, unironically, lists 1/8 through 7/8 in each inch, including 2/8, 4/8 and 6/8!
It’s not @dagad@lemmy.world who is being dumb, the Imperial system is.
I can’t see what you described the sae side as because of a word filter, but I can guarantee a worse pejorative was used for people who chose that ruler on a job or worse, were assigned it in shop class. I think there’s a not for dumb people use for the unreduced scale but for the life of me I just can’t think of it.
Is that really the complaint, that people don’t wanna do fractions?
I called it dumb with stronger wording, but that was unnecessary and I’ve updated my comment to be more clear.
And yes, among many other reasons. The main complaint is that the systems uses many different conversions internally; 12 inch in a foot, 72 points in an inch, 3 feet in a yard, an arbitrary amount of yards in a landmile, and slightly more at sea… I understand this wasn’t designed deliberately, that imperial is really just 3 measurement systems in a trench coat. But that’s exactly the problem.
But also yes, I’d rather do 9 mm or1 cm, than 3/8 inch
All those different divisions exist for a reason, none of the things you listed are arbitrary. People have been measuring things for millennia and developed systems appropriate to the measurements, scale and tools involved. Saying that they should all use the same system because it would be easier to convert between units is just about the most elitist thing possible.
Before you write that last sentence off as mad ranting, really think on this: how often are people converting between units and how often is that conversion problematic? I’ll come out and say that almost no one ever needs to convert units. I measure stuff all the time and I’m almost always using the appropriate unit right on the tool I’m using to measure. In the case that I need to convert between units it’s very easy, multiplication or division by bases that have many factors, so it’s always incredibly fast. On the wildly rare change I need to go from a type of measurement to another, I have to deal with multiplying by a constant at least so nothing is easier there.
That’s not to say that there are no benefits to a system with codified conversions and prefixes. People who make a very wide range of measurements would benefit from it, but that’s a very rare use case. I’m a huge proponent of the metric system in those cases, measurements like those used when working with electricity are perfect for metric. You still have to learn fractions to do any kind of radio work but we aren’t getting away from those things any time soon.
So when I say it’s elitist to suggest everyone abandon the established systems in order to adopt one that really only benefits a tiny fraction of people making measurements that’s why.
Sorry for the wall of text but it’s required to make clear I’m not simply badjacketing and actually have a critique with real material basis.
Tldr: goose chasing meme with “for what density, motherfucker, for what density” text.
Oh no, I’m saying the US should adopt the system the rest of the world uses
Also, I know Imperial has a long history, coming from all sorts of different measurement systems that all made sense at some point. For example, for a long time in history, most of Europe worked with base 12, instead of ten. We still have separate words for “eleven” and “twelve”, and can say things like “a dozen and two” instead of “four-teen”. His reflects in points, inches and feet; 12 inches in a foot made as much sense back then as 10 dm in a meter does now. 72 points in an inch makes as much sense as 50cm being half a meter.
Nowadays, though, that doesn’t make sense. Using different measurement systems for different things (miles and pounds came from different systems) makes it all the more problematic. The metric system makes sense to our 10 numerals, and gives one coherent system to measure, weigh etc. everything!
So, the US, and parts of some other countries, would really benefit from this sensible, coherent system, that rest is the whole world is using, too!
we still have twelve numerals. we can still divide and multiply by 12 and its several bases. fractional measurement still makes more sense than decimal measurement for the overwhelming majority of everyday measurement cases that normal people face. 12 inches to a foot still makes sense today, 72 points to an inch still makes sense today, teaspoons and tablespoons still make sense today.
i’m not telling you the metric system should be locked away and never taught.
consider machining: the inch is divided into mils, each one one thousandth of an inch. for the precise measurement required in machining that measurement system (with base 10!) is perfect. but we don’t need to switch to base ten for everyday stuff. in fact, so few people perform machining operations that it doesn’t make sense to teach that system of measurement in schools outside of shop class. metric is wonderful for measurements that need to use compound units or can be huge or tiny and measurements that have no analog to human understanding like amps or volts. lets use it for what its good for.
please consider this from my perspective, having worked in several trades in the 21st century where most of the measurements, standards, processes and equipment are already established (worldwide, mind you!) and people come in with no experience in the field and suggest moving to a different system of measurement will make everything easier then suggest metric which has no fractional divisions, fewer divisible bases, requires conversion to interact with distributors and existing equipment and extensive retraining.
i was taught in grade school, just as i suspect you were, that metric is the universal system of measurement and that it’s better because the tens make it easier. working with computers disabused me of the notion of decimal primacy and working in brewing, machining, auto repair and carpentry only reinforced it.
metric is not a more sensible, coherent system for the vast, overwhelming majority of people. it’s optimized for some very particular uses that are unique to engineering, mathematics and science and was designed for that.
+/- 20% is good enough for e6 and covers the overwhelming majority of men’s foot lengths.
For making a measurement without a tool +/-20% should be fine.
It’s all fun and games, but I take issue with calling metric “civilized units”. Human civilization developed all kinds of units appropriate to the work being done and calling the ones defined almost in defiance of everyday use the civilized ones is absurd.
Being able to easily convert between various units makes the metric system the only one worth considering civilized.
Every time I see a wrench labeled with some insane fraction like 18/32 my eye starts twitching. I honestly cannot tell which size is bigger without dividing and converting to decimal.
Human civilization developed all kinds of dumb shit we’ve since discarded. Please let’s discard the idiotic units in my lifetime.
I think you mean a 9/16. It’s be pretty crazy to see one labeled 18/32.
When you wanna make fun of sae use an odd number on top so no one can make fun of you for not reducing your fractions like a fourth grader. Or so you whip out 9/12 and get elementary school math mogged anyway.
How is it easier to convert between units under metric? I don’t have any use for a kilogram length of lumber or a meter of gasoline. What unit conversions are you doing?
Nah, my ruler has cm on one side and inches on the other. The side with inches actually, unironically, lists 1/8 through 7/8 in each inch, including 2/8, 4/8 and 6/8!
It’s not @dagad@lemmy.world who is being dumb, the Imperial system is.
I can’t see what you described the sae side as because of a word filter, but I can guarantee a worse pejorative was used for people who chose that ruler on a job or worse, were assigned it in shop class. I think there’s a not for dumb people use for the unreduced scale but for the life of me I just can’t think of it.
Is that really the complaint, that people don’t wanna do fractions?
I called it dumb with stronger wording, but that was unnecessary and I’ve updated my comment to be more clear.
And yes, among many other reasons. The main complaint is that the systems uses many different conversions internally; 12 inch in a foot, 72 points in an inch, 3 feet in a yard, an arbitrary amount of yards in a landmile, and slightly more at sea… I understand this wasn’t designed deliberately, that imperial is really just 3 measurement systems in a trench coat. But that’s exactly the problem.
But also yes, I’d rather do 9 mm or1 cm, than 3/8 inch
All those different divisions exist for a reason, none of the things you listed are arbitrary. People have been measuring things for millennia and developed systems appropriate to the measurements, scale and tools involved. Saying that they should all use the same system because it would be easier to convert between units is just about the most elitist thing possible.
Before you write that last sentence off as mad ranting, really think on this: how often are people converting between units and how often is that conversion problematic? I’ll come out and say that almost no one ever needs to convert units. I measure stuff all the time and I’m almost always using the appropriate unit right on the tool I’m using to measure. In the case that I need to convert between units it’s very easy, multiplication or division by bases that have many factors, so it’s always incredibly fast. On the wildly rare change I need to go from a type of measurement to another, I have to deal with multiplying by a constant at least so nothing is easier there.
That’s not to say that there are no benefits to a system with codified conversions and prefixes. People who make a very wide range of measurements would benefit from it, but that’s a very rare use case. I’m a huge proponent of the metric system in those cases, measurements like those used when working with electricity are perfect for metric. You still have to learn fractions to do any kind of radio work but we aren’t getting away from those things any time soon.
So when I say it’s elitist to suggest everyone abandon the established systems in order to adopt one that really only benefits a tiny fraction of people making measurements that’s why.
Sorry for the wall of text but it’s required to make clear I’m not simply badjacketing and actually have a critique with real material basis.
Tldr: goose chasing meme with “for what density, motherfucker, for what density” text.
Oh no, I’m saying the US should adopt the system the rest of the world uses
Also, I know Imperial has a long history, coming from all sorts of different measurement systems that all made sense at some point. For example, for a long time in history, most of Europe worked with base 12, instead of ten. We still have separate words for “eleven” and “twelve”, and can say things like “a dozen and two” instead of “four-teen”. His reflects in points, inches and feet; 12 inches in a foot made as much sense back then as 10 dm in a meter does now. 72 points in an inch makes as much sense as 50cm being half a meter.
Nowadays, though, that doesn’t make sense. Using different measurement systems for different things (miles and pounds came from different systems) makes it all the more problematic. The metric system makes sense to our 10 numerals, and gives one coherent system to measure, weigh etc. everything!
So, the US, and parts of some other countries, would really benefit from this sensible, coherent system, that rest is the whole world is using, too!
we still have twelve numerals. we can still divide and multiply by 12 and its several bases. fractional measurement still makes more sense than decimal measurement for the overwhelming majority of everyday measurement cases that normal people face. 12 inches to a foot still makes sense today, 72 points to an inch still makes sense today, teaspoons and tablespoons still make sense today.
i’m not telling you the metric system should be locked away and never taught.
consider machining: the inch is divided into mils, each one one thousandth of an inch. for the precise measurement required in machining that measurement system (with base 10!) is perfect. but we don’t need to switch to base ten for everyday stuff. in fact, so few people perform machining operations that it doesn’t make sense to teach that system of measurement in schools outside of shop class. metric is wonderful for measurements that need to use compound units or can be huge or tiny and measurements that have no analog to human understanding like amps or volts. lets use it for what its good for.
please consider this from my perspective, having worked in several trades in the 21st century where most of the measurements, standards, processes and equipment are already established (worldwide, mind you!) and people come in with no experience in the field and suggest moving to a different system of measurement will make everything easier then suggest metric which has no fractional divisions, fewer divisible bases, requires conversion to interact with distributors and existing equipment and extensive retraining.
i was taught in grade school, just as i suspect you were, that metric is the universal system of measurement and that it’s better because the tens make it easier. working with computers disabused me of the notion of decimal primacy and working in brewing, machining, auto repair and carpentry only reinforced it.
metric is not a more sensible, coherent system for the vast, overwhelming majority of people. it’s optimized for some very particular uses that are unique to engineering, mathematics and science and was designed for that.