Since, I’m not a biodeutsch and my family came here to be workers in Germany, does it make me product of a “international capitals culture”?
ABSOLUTELY NOT and I hope you understand that while I sympathize with this maybe coming off like some cryptorightwinger it is absolutely not intended that way. When I talk about international capitalism I talk about german people identifying over which iphone they have instead of talking about “Reeddächer” and other things that distinguish our different localities.
Doesn’t it this contradict with proletarian internationalism?
From what I’ve read so far it doesnt. Stalin was the one taking care of preserving the culture of the more than ten different countries, nationalities and ethnicities in the ussr. that is what I’m talking about. The bourgoisie is trying to make “preserving culture” the anvil to smash proletarian revolution on because they can tell the right wingers the left want to destroy germany (not true) and they can tell the leftlibs that any preservation of any culture is fascism or racusm (not true either).
As If, all German workers have the same culture while the Ausländer culture is the “international capitals culture”.
That is exactly what they are trying to split the working class over. Its not the same if we have a dönerbude, next to a fallaffelstand, next to a chinese restaurant in opposition to starbucks, next to mcdonalds, next to five guys burgers.
Its the same issue the ussr had back then and china has today. Germany does not have one culture. it has many. some are very old and some have more recently developed. the german turks for example have their own culture, a blend of turkish and german with a huge drop of capitalist exploitation. Stalin would now need (same as the chinese do) to work out what is the cultural details and how they interact and how to preserve each and every one of them while rooting out fascist and capitalist tendencies.
I can write more to this later but I have to go now.
ABSOLUTELY NOT and I hope you understand that while I sympathize with this maybe coming off like some cryptorightwinger it is absolutely not intended that way. When I talk about international capitalism I talk about german people identifying over which iphone they have instead of talking about “Reeddächer” and other things that distinguish our different localities.
Germany does not have one culture. it has many. some are very old and some have more recently developed. the german turks for example have their own culture, a blend of turkish and german with a huge drop of capitalist exploitation
The food and traditions a Turkish-German family has built over 50 years is German culture. The daily life in a Berlin workers’ district is different from a Bavarian village. Which one do you “preserve”? When you start picking and choosing, you inevitably exclude someone. And exclusion is the opposite of building a united working class. And this leads to chauvinism.
You’re angry at consumer culture. You’re right to hate the iPhone, Starbucks, McDonald’s. But that’s not “international capital’s culture” it’s capitalist consumer culture. It’s the result of the profit machine needing to sell the same stuff everywhere.
The real enemy isn’t the culture it spreads, but the capitalist class itself. The Chinese worker assembling the iPhone, the German worker in debt to buy it, and the student working a shitty job at Starbucks they’re all in the same boat. What unites them isn’t the coffee they drink or the phone they use; it’s that they are all being exploited for profit.
From what I’ve read so far it doesnt. Stalin was the one taking care of preserving the culture of the more than ten different countries, nationalities and ethnicities in the ussr. that is what I’m talking about. The bourgoisie is trying to make “preserving culture” the anvil to smash proletarian revolution on because they can tell the right wingers the left want to destroy germany (not true) and they can tell the leftlibs that any preservation of any culture is fascism or racusm (not true either).
You’re Misreading the Stalin Example.
Stalin’s policy of “national in form, socialist in content” happened after a revolution in a crumbling empire. Its goal was to bring dozens of oppressed nations (Ukrainians, Georgians, Uzbeks) into the Soviet project by letting them speak their languages and practice their cultures, while steering them toward a common socialist goal. It was a post-revolutionary strategy to hold a vast, diverse country together.
What you’re proposing in Germany is the exact opposite. You’re starting with an existing nation-state and trying to define and “preserve” a German culture. This isn’t about lifting up oppressed minorities; it’s about defining a majority identity. That path, even with the best intentions, naturally drifts toward nationalism. It starts with “protecting our traditions” and ends up drawing a line between “us” and “them.”
Lastly, comrade my intention isn’t attack you or offend you at all. I doubt about your thoughts that it will lead to left-wing nationalism. That’s why, I’m depressed to see still we’re far from united working class. I’ve been in some groups that had the same ideas as you and got purged for being “divise”. I’m oppressed as a worker and being foreigner in this country and no vanguard party on the horizon.
Sorry but i disagree fully. I dont think this is good critique. They started with a strawman in pulling the “biodeutsch” card.
I’m a migrants child myself and i tell you it is anti-german chauvinism. Its in the same category as people saying germans have no culture. Thats the exact same thing the nazis said about the jews. Its extemely chauvinist to say germans have no culture.
And the same goes for diverting the idea of preserving german handywork and music and such. Imagine i would say that about americans or folks from the UK. Capitalism is commodifying german people as well as their culture.
If any one of you can cite theory that contradicts me i’m happy to listen but please leave out the common sense. Its bourgeois bs.
I think this is a dead end argument and not a discussion i wish to engage in. You’ve both laid out your points well. I just think this is not what German communists need to be focusing on at the moment. There are much more pressing matters.
Again, i sympathize with your worries but youre getting wooed into ultraleftist dogmatism.
It is correct that stalin worked on preserving culture after power was taken and thus it shall be in germany, not before. Still, the anti-german ideology instilled in many leftists in germany and outside is not healthy.
The worker in the rsfsr was different from the georgian worker, the worker in shanghainis different from the worker in Xinjiang. Not one of them gets preserved, all need to be preserved.
I’m also not angry and it is indeed insulting to suggest so. I see clearly and without anger that we need to get rid of the large chains and the fast and cheaply built and badly maintained housing as well as the millions of cars that block our tiny roads.
This all needs to go. In its stead we need new and larger houses to house enough people, we need more and better public transport that does not shake you until you get sick because the street and the springs of the buses are rotten.
Please understand that i’m not wrong here. The mainstream is trying to push us all into two camps which is stupid. We need to put socialism first but people are not going to listen if we ignore their needs.
And please stop telling me how i get theory wrong while you get it right. That is chauvinist as well. Lenin himself said to not be dogmatic and talk to the working class where they are, not where we want them to be. Currently that is at “we arent happy being told how to behave while we have no work”. You can call me a fascist all day but i get that.
ABSOLUTELY NOT and I hope you understand that while I sympathize with this maybe coming off like some cryptorightwinger it is absolutely not intended that way. When I talk about international capitalism I talk about german people identifying over which iphone they have instead of talking about “Reeddächer” and other things that distinguish our different localities.
From what I’ve read so far it doesnt. Stalin was the one taking care of preserving the culture of the more than ten different countries, nationalities and ethnicities in the ussr. that is what I’m talking about. The bourgoisie is trying to make “preserving culture” the anvil to smash proletarian revolution on because they can tell the right wingers the left want to destroy germany (not true) and they can tell the leftlibs that any preservation of any culture is fascism or racusm (not true either).
That is exactly what they are trying to split the working class over. Its not the same if we have a dönerbude, next to a fallaffelstand, next to a chinese restaurant in opposition to starbucks, next to mcdonalds, next to five guys burgers.
Its the same issue the ussr had back then and china has today. Germany does not have one culture. it has many. some are very old and some have more recently developed. the german turks for example have their own culture, a blend of turkish and german with a huge drop of capitalist exploitation. Stalin would now need (same as the chinese do) to work out what is the cultural details and how they interact and how to preserve each and every one of them while rooting out fascist and capitalist tendencies.
I can write more to this later but I have to go now.
The food and traditions a Turkish-German family has built over 50 years is German culture. The daily life in a Berlin workers’ district is different from a Bavarian village. Which one do you “preserve”? When you start picking and choosing, you inevitably exclude someone. And exclusion is the opposite of building a united working class. And this leads to chauvinism.
You’re angry at consumer culture. You’re right to hate the iPhone, Starbucks, McDonald’s. But that’s not “international capital’s culture” it’s capitalist consumer culture. It’s the result of the profit machine needing to sell the same stuff everywhere. The real enemy isn’t the culture it spreads, but the capitalist class itself. The Chinese worker assembling the iPhone, the German worker in debt to buy it, and the student working a shitty job at Starbucks they’re all in the same boat. What unites them isn’t the coffee they drink or the phone they use; it’s that they are all being exploited for profit.
You’re Misreading the Stalin Example. Stalin’s policy of “national in form, socialist in content” happened after a revolution in a crumbling empire. Its goal was to bring dozens of oppressed nations (Ukrainians, Georgians, Uzbeks) into the Soviet project by letting them speak their languages and practice their cultures, while steering them toward a common socialist goal. It was a post-revolutionary strategy to hold a vast, diverse country together.
What you’re proposing in Germany is the exact opposite. You’re starting with an existing nation-state and trying to define and “preserve” a German culture. This isn’t about lifting up oppressed minorities; it’s about defining a majority identity. That path, even with the best intentions, naturally drifts toward nationalism. It starts with “protecting our traditions” and ends up drawing a line between “us” and “them.”
Lastly, comrade my intention isn’t attack you or offend you at all. I doubt about your thoughts that it will lead to left-wing nationalism. That’s why, I’m depressed to see still we’re far from united working class. I’ve been in some groups that had the same ideas as you and got purged for being “divise”. I’m oppressed as a worker and being foreigner in this country and no vanguard party on the horizon.
Excellent critique!
Sorry but i disagree fully. I dont think this is good critique. They started with a strawman in pulling the “biodeutsch” card.
I’m a migrants child myself and i tell you it is anti-german chauvinism. Its in the same category as people saying germans have no culture. Thats the exact same thing the nazis said about the jews. Its extemely chauvinist to say germans have no culture.
And the same goes for diverting the idea of preserving german handywork and music and such. Imagine i would say that about americans or folks from the UK. Capitalism is commodifying german people as well as their culture.
If any one of you can cite theory that contradicts me i’m happy to listen but please leave out the common sense. Its bourgeois bs.
I think this is a dead end argument and not a discussion i wish to engage in. You’ve both laid out your points well. I just think this is not what German communists need to be focusing on at the moment. There are much more pressing matters.
Again, i sympathize with your worries but youre getting wooed into ultraleftist dogmatism.
It is correct that stalin worked on preserving culture after power was taken and thus it shall be in germany, not before. Still, the anti-german ideology instilled in many leftists in germany and outside is not healthy.
The worker in the rsfsr was different from the georgian worker, the worker in shanghainis different from the worker in Xinjiang. Not one of them gets preserved, all need to be preserved.
I’m also not angry and it is indeed insulting to suggest so. I see clearly and without anger that we need to get rid of the large chains and the fast and cheaply built and badly maintained housing as well as the millions of cars that block our tiny roads.
This all needs to go. In its stead we need new and larger houses to house enough people, we need more and better public transport that does not shake you until you get sick because the street and the springs of the buses are rotten.
Please understand that i’m not wrong here. The mainstream is trying to push us all into two camps which is stupid. We need to put socialism first but people are not going to listen if we ignore their needs.
And please stop telling me how i get theory wrong while you get it right. That is chauvinist as well. Lenin himself said to not be dogmatic and talk to the working class where they are, not where we want them to be. Currently that is at “we arent happy being told how to behave while we have no work”. You can call me a fascist all day but i get that.
I see there’s no reason to continue this discussion. We’re repeating the same thing. I hope your efforts can revive DKP.