Calling her a dishwasher is based on attitudes where women are the homeworkers. I see the joke as taking the piss out of people with that attitude, not the woman herself. We all know that she is a human being with thoughts and feelings like the rest of us and no one ever thought otherwise.
Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target lest it be mistaken for and contribute to that which it intends to criticize
Archie Bunker is a great example of satire that just reinforced prejudice among the people watching All In The Family who were already bigoted. They don’t see themselves or Archie as the joke. So ultimately you’re just giving air time to bigotry if your satire isn’t both scathing and clear.
I don’t know who you’re quoting, but it’s not me. I didn’t make the joke and if someone were to be actually misogynist in my life I would speak up about it. This doesn’t bother me.
I know it’s not from you, it’s a quote about satire in general. I posted it because it was relevant to the conversation.
I don’t think just repeating misogynistic jokes without commentary and then blaming people for not knowing it was actually ironic misogyny and not “real” misogyny is effective at critiquing misogyny or beyond criticism.
Wether or not they get the joke doesn’t change anything. Satire isn’t going to stop a bigot from being a bigot. It’s like those dumbass who are suddenly afraid of the okay sign. Like, they have you by the balls dude. They’re bending you over and fucking you hard, and you’re letting them. It’s pointless. At some point you just need to say fuck it and live, because bigots are going to bigot no matter what who does. If a piece mocking them makes them comfortable enough to expose themselves, that’s a good thing.
I’m not sure that is in bad faith, it’s the essence of what you said. I agree I probably went too far by using *checks notes*.
I’m really not sure how any of it justifies making a joke they would make, and saying it doesn’t count cause you don’t actually think that. Why say it?
I’ll fuck off now since my opinion doesn’t matter to you don’t worry 🙂
So it’s funny because some people with that attitude exist, and therefore you make a joke those people would make? How is that different from saying a racist joke and claiming you’re making fun of racists? (non-hostile question)
Throw in some subtle nuance in the delivery, and I’ve done similar to basically call someone a jackass to their face.
For a rough example - attending a kids birthday party in the presence of racist ex-inlaws. Somebody says something predictably racist, I say something obnoxious which on the surface sounds like I might agree with them for half a second, then the realization hits that I was making fun of them and I roll my eyes and walk away.
It subverts the expectation by calling the woman a dishwasher. This is the humour. I don’t find it offensive because I assume they’re joking, and it’s a reasonable assumption because there is a real dishwasher at play while he referred to the woman as a dishwasher, making it quite clear he was simply joking and not serious positing that women belong in the kitchen.
I remember something similar on Reddit where there was a subreddit that made ironic humour about Trump, however it quite quickly turned into a serious subreddit over time because some people took it seriously.
I’ve seen similar happen with LGBT jokes or misogynistic jokes and they will escalate over time while you also get told you’re too uptight and to relax. This also was beginning to happen in 196 on lemmy with trans people.
Not the person that made the joke, but…
Calling her a dishwasher is based on attitudes where women are the homeworkers. I see the joke as taking the piss out of people with that attitude, not the woman herself. We all know that she is a human being with thoughts and feelings like the rest of us and no one ever thought otherwise.
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Archie Bunker is a great example of satire that just reinforced prejudice among the people watching All In The Family who were already bigoted. They don’t see themselves or Archie as the joke. So ultimately you’re just giving air time to bigotry if your satire isn’t both scathing and clear.
I don’t know who you’re quoting, but it’s not me. I didn’t make the joke and if someone were to be actually misogynist in my life I would speak up about it. This doesn’t bother me.
I know it’s not from you, it’s a quote about satire in general. I posted it because it was relevant to the conversation.
I don’t think just repeating misogynistic jokes without commentary and then blaming people for not knowing it was actually ironic misogyny and not “real” misogyny is effective at critiquing misogyny or beyond criticism.
Thanks for your contributions, you put it way more eloquently than I. 🙂
Does it matter that the joke goes over those people’s heads? The fact that they don’t know they’re being mocked makes it funnier.
Yes because then they feel confident with their views, after all it’s being plastered in front of them so it must be okay right?
Wether or not they get the joke doesn’t change anything. Satire isn’t going to stop a bigot from being a bigot. It’s like those dumbass who are suddenly afraid of the okay sign. Like, they have you by the balls dude. They’re bending you over and fucking you hard, and you’re letting them. It’s pointless. At some point you just need to say fuck it and live, because bigots are going to bigot no matter what who does. If a piece mocking them makes them comfortable enough to expose themselves, that’s a good thing.
Fuck bigots and live and… Checks notes make their jokes for them?
I know you know that’s a beyond dishonest characterization of my point. Fuck off if you can’t argue in good faith.
I’m not sure that is in bad faith, it’s the essence of what you said. I agree I probably went too far by using *checks notes*.
I’m really not sure how any of it justifies making a joke they would make, and saying it doesn’t count cause you don’t actually think that. Why say it?
I’ll fuck off now since my opinion doesn’t matter to you don’t worry 🙂
Exactly. That and taking the piss out of people too sensitive to see that.
So it’s funny because some people with that attitude exist, and therefore you make a joke those people would make? How is that different from saying a racist joke and claiming you’re making fun of racists? (non-hostile question)
Throw in some subtle nuance in the delivery, and I’ve done similar to basically call someone a jackass to their face.
For a rough example - attending a kids birthday party in the presence of racist ex-inlaws. Somebody says something predictably racist, I say something obnoxious which on the surface sounds like I might agree with them for half a second, then the realization hits that I was making fun of them and I roll my eyes and walk away.
I can see how this could be fun to do, I don’t think I’d have the nuance to pull it off though
I mean, you don’t have to get somebody’s humor, but it’s funny because of how shocking and absurd it is. The same goes for some racist jokes imo.
It subverts the expectation by calling the woman a dishwasher. This is the humour. I don’t find it offensive because I assume they’re joking, and it’s a reasonable assumption because there is a real dishwasher at play while he referred to the woman as a dishwasher, making it quite clear he was simply joking and not serious positing that women belong in the kitchen.
I remember something similar on Reddit where there was a subreddit that made ironic humour about Trump, however it quite quickly turned into a serious subreddit over time because some people took it seriously.
I’ve seen similar happen with LGBT jokes or misogynistic jokes and they will escalate over time while you also get told you’re too uptight and to relax. This also was beginning to happen in 196 on lemmy with trans people.
So? Block and report them. Don’t let them control you like that bud.
This happens in online communities all the time, unless I want to block the internet I’m going to have to deal with it. 🙂 So I do the next best thing.
I understand I’m not the popular opinion here, but hopefully this helps somewhat.