As you have all noticed, this seems to be a point of contention here. This is a good thing, since it means someone will learn something.

Now we seem to be all over the place, with this general area of thought, provoking many questions. Whether or not PatSocs are socially conservative, what is position on social conservatism? Many of us are very young, both in age and ML experience, so an online discussion would be a great learning tool.

  1. Are socially conservative individuals allowed to be apart of the leftist movement?
  • A. Are socially conservative individuals victims of bourgeois propaganda?

-B. If socially conservative people are turned away by the left, where do they go?

-C. How high of a position would a social conservative be allowed in a ML party?

-D. How has or will MLs educate socially conservative folk?

-E. &tc, &tc.

  1. What exactly is Patriotism?

-A. Does patriotism depend on culture?

-B Is possible for a distinction between patriotism for a country and wanting to abolish the state?

-C. Is patriotism corrupted in the Core?

-D How have post imperialist countries with Communist experiments built patriotism?

-E. &Tc &TC

  1. Who even are the PatSocs?

-A. If the label is too convuluted, should we make a distinction between Maupin and American exceptionalists?

-B. Who of the leaders do we consider MLs?

-C. Should patriotic socialist be distinct from socialism or is inherent in socialism?

-D. How much do WE even know if PatSocs?

-E. &Tc, &tc

We can look at the USSR and GDR for these questions. Remember the Hammer and Sickel came from somewhere.

Things to look out for about the US:

-It is the imperialist power, AND a settler state.

-Low levels of cultural development

-The culture that is there is taken from marginalized groups.

-Americas are the most propagandized people in the World.

-It is huge and incredibly diverse

More questions about the US could follow:

-Should the US be balkanized? If so how does patriotism be built in balkanized regions?

-How does land back go about? Will indigenous countries emerge, and if so should we reconsider American MLs as different MLs for the Regions in North America.

-If we see different nations and regions in North America how does that affect culture? Is the question of how we view the land a prerequisite to discussing patriotism, is it contradictory to call yourself an American Patriot if you decide to divide up the land until regions?

There is so much potential for deep political for North American based Comrades, this is a rabbit hole I do want to delve into. I’ll cross post this to GZD but I want it mainly on Leftist Infighting.

Edit: spacing issues

  • @CountryBreakfast
    8•2 years ago

    I think Maupin is a very import figure right now for the North American left, but I don’t quite understand why he calls himself an “American Patriot” and that “he loves his country” even though positions seem to contradict that.

    My fascist family uses the same lines when they run for office to convince old timer democrats to vote republican. This is an example of someone trying to manipulate colonial discourse into their favor.

    Maupin’s error is assuming that all class consciousness is good, that it all leads to proletarian revolutionary consciousness. He is incorrect.

    If you tell people whoes livlihood depends on maintaining the wealth they recieved during the Homestead Act of 1862, or from super profits that are recycled into super wages for the Global North’s working class, that they have nothing to lose but their chains and that America deserves better, they will not hear the same thing a Haitian, or otherwise imperialized/colonized person hears. They will hear a call for fascism, for another round of colonial conquest and extraction, so they can get theirs once again.